Sounds like United used a contractor to operate a flight like Lyft or Uber uses contractors to operate cars.
Well, as he pointed out, American uses the same regional carrier to operate flights on that route. That sounds like a contractor to me.
Analysis of the United Airlines passenger removal incident
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Re: Analysis of the United Airlines passenger removal incident
#12The American economy is running on fumes and wishful thinking. Various industries have had to cut costs, try to carry on, and try to conceal the inherent and inevitable crappiness. This is how United does it.
Re: Analysis of the United Airlines passenger removal incident
#13The how and why these people were asked to get of the plane isn't the story. There is a big mash of different companies behind the uniforms. We know they are all cut-throats. But people are asked/told to get off planes every day. It isn't right but happens without issue every hour of every day. So for me this story begins and ends with why violence was used against this particular person. That has much less to do wit…
> So for me this story begins and ends with why violence was used against this particular person
This person had a backbone but wasn't threatening enough for the staff to try someone else.
Re: Analysis of the United Airlines passenger removal incident
#14This is a great article, worth a read. Plus the guy has an awesome cartoon avatar. The summary is: United on their smaller flights has lots of people pretending to be united employees but they aren't, and they aren't as well trained as united employees. The police in airports often aren't regular police forces, but are special airport police who might or might not be on a regular police force. To me, that says there'…
The assistant manager at the car wash I go to is a pilot for one of these airlines. He makes about $25k as a first officer. He considers getting hotel points as a bonus. He kept the car wash gig to make ends meet until he gets a better gig or promotion.
Re: Analysis of the United Airlines passenger removal incident
#15Sounds like United used a contractor to operate a flight like Lyft or Uber uses contractors to operate cars.
That true, though I think that there is a difference.
Most, if not all people realize that Lyft and Uber are mostly just middlemen. That's what make it 'easy' for people looking for a part-time gig to jump in and start temporary work. Regardless of the ethics of having a large group of contractors, I think it's pretty evident to most users of the app of what the situation is, especially since customers will sometimes talk to the driver about their experience with being an Uber/Lyft driver.
On the flipside, I would be positively surprised if the majority of United passengers knew that Republic was a contractor working on behalf of United, what with the branding and all.
Re: Analysis of the United Airlines passenger removal incident
#16This was a fascinating read. The money quote, in summary form: * The flight was technically a Republic Airlines flight subcontracting for United Airlines. * Almost none of the staff involved worked directly for United Airlines; they are subcontractors required to wear United Airlines' branded uniforms. * Republic Airlines is bankrupt, and none of the parties involved in the lawsuit has attempted to shift blame to the…
The infuriating thing about all of this is how deliberately obfuscated and phony everything is: * Airline employees who aren't quite airline employees * Cops who aren't quite cops * Reserved seats that aren't quite reserved Doesn't anyone honestly sell a real product that you can take at face value anymore?
This rubbish is everywhere. Contract cleaning (offices etc) for instance, used to be a profitable small business. Not enough to be rich, but enough for a big house with some decent amenities and to raise a family on a single income. Then in the 90's these gigs went into a pyramid of contracting and sub contracting companies where the company buying the service is paying more but the grunt doing the work is lucky to be on minimum wage.
At a time where small business software should have been making these middle men completely useless they were getting bigger than ever.
Re: Analysis of the United Airlines passenger removal incident
#17Earlier quoted context omitted.
Don't you have enough anger for them AND united? I do.
I was surprised to learn that there are these apparent pseudo-police in airports, probably with pseudo-training and expertise. The best folks are often on the big city police force that can afford better training and background checks - as you go farther away from that, you are more likely (but not always) going to find people with some issues.
IME in the US the State Police have the best training and highest standards, although a big city Detective might individually be more skilled.
Re: Analysis of the United Airlines passenger removal incident
#18Earlier quoted context omitted.
Don't you have enough anger for them AND united? I do.
My anger at united is surpassed by my anger against Air Canada. Whenever someone books me on a Vancouver-SFO trip using Air Canada one leg ends up on a "United" aircraft. The free market means my ticket on my national airline is sold to United, and then to whatever subcontractor is renting the United logo on the day. They are just the middleman in the chain of misery.
You can see in advance what company operates each leg. It's not a secret.
Re: Analysis of the United Airlines passenger removal incident
#19This was a fascinating read. The money quote, in summary form: * The flight was technically a Republic Airlines flight subcontracting for United Airlines. * Almost none of the staff involved worked directly for United Airlines; they are subcontractors required to wear United Airlines' branded uniforms. * Republic Airlines is bankrupt, and none of the parties involved in the lawsuit has attempted to shift blame to the…
The infuriating thing about all of this is how deliberately obfuscated and phony everything is: * Airline employees who aren't quite airline employees * Cops who aren't quite cops * Reserved seats that aren't quite reserved Doesn't anyone honestly sell a real product that you can take at face value anymore?
Please tell me you the ToS for every online service, every time it's updated. The internet-enabled side of industry virtually invented this modus operandi.
Re: Analysis of the United Airlines passenger removal incident
#20The American economy is running on fumes and wishful thinking. Various industries have had to cut costs, try to carry on, and try to conceal the inherent and inevitable crappiness. This is how United does it.
It's not only America, but I suspect that it's because of the expectation of infinite growth, which is a fantasy, because nothing can grow indefinitely.
So the market becomes more competitive, but the shareholders still want their return. So first you get the fat cut off, then you end up with corners cut right up to and over the point of illegality.
Eventually stuff like this incident and much worse happens.