If this is up your street, may I recommend Dan Carlin's Blueprint for Armageddon, which has over ten hours of podcast material exploring the lead up to the first world war. Probably the best podcast I've ever downloaded, and insane that it's available for nearly free. http://www.dancarlin.com/product/hardcore-history-50-bluepri...
Why 1866 Set the Stage for Two World Wars
91–100 of 221 posts
Re: Why 1866 Set the Stage for Two World Wars
#92Tying in the US seems a bit forced here. WWI as a result of Franco-Prussian war I can understand, US civil rights not-so-much. That Germany was 'destined' to lose is a non-starter anyways. From my understanding it was Britain's decision to enter WWI that really shaped the outcome, and that it was far from a foregone conclusion that Britain would enter a continental European war. If the British didn't get involved, Ge…
The argument was that the US had gained a "defend the rights of man", i.e. Democracy, attitude because of the Civil War (though honestly with the early end of Reconstruction, I'm not sure it's valid). This attitude eventually encouraged the US to come directly into the War, though the US had been giving significant support to England and France prior to that point. I agree that it's weak though. And Britain is defini…
Re: Why 1866 Set the Stage for Two World Wars
#93Earlier quoted context omitted.
AFAIK, everything Prophets of Doom onward is completely free. Not sure how long that will last, and I would love for Dan to put out a monthly or yearly subscription via Patreon; his work is of such high quality.
The latest 10 episodes are free. If a new one is put out, the 10th oldest is no longer available. You can buy his discography for something on the order of $50. Remember, if you think his shows are worth a dollar, Dan and Ben would love to have it.
Re: Why 1866 Set the Stage for Two World Wars
#94There are many putative causes for WWI. Wilson, for example, favored the idea that secret treaties was what caused the mess to blow up, but the evidence is fairly against it (basically, everyone who was making the decisions either knew or correctly guessed what the countries were going to do, and the only real question in the July Crisis was what Britain would do, and the British themselves didn't seem to have made up their mind). Other theories include the idea of "timetable war": the timetables for mobilization were too inflexible such that starting them meant they had to be seen through to completion, but that's more of an excuse that the military gave to justify their actions. Franco-Prussian war comes up a lot, but as I'll shortly explain, France wasn't particularly in an offensive war mood.
To understand what caused WWI, it's helpful to see the state of the countries in the immediate years preceding the war. Britain was distracted with the Irish Home Rule crisis (so much to the point that the July Crisis didn't really get noted until after the Serbian ultimatum!), and many feared that revolution or civil war was imminent. France, for its part, had had its internal divisions sharply exposed by the Dreyfus affair, and the Third Republic was a succession of weak governments. With the memory of the Franco-Prussian war, plus a strong socialist/reactionary divide, and the embarrassing and very public Dreyfus affair, its army was heavily demoralized and was in no mood to fight an offensive war, particularly not against Germany with no allies. Russia had lost the Russo-Japanese War in a shocking defeat, and was using primarily French funds to rebuild and modernize their army (which was dooming the Schlieffen Plan, as Germany planned to knock out France while Russia was mobilizing its army). The Russian government very nearly fell after their lost loss in a war, and they didn't expect to survive the next war if they lost. Austria-Hungary was basically two countries (Austria and Hungary) who had to work together but couldn't due to deep internal divisions. Some elements of the government (including Franz Ferdinand) saw the Balkans as a way to solve the problem by creating a third internal division that could overrule Hungarian objections to everything. Italy was a weak power who everyone pretended was a great power. The Ottoman Empire was slowly crumbling and featured more or less the last virgin land for colonial expansion.
Last of all is Germany. By 1910, Bismarck's foreign policy had been completely torn up, and Germany saw itself surrounded by the Triple Entente of Britain, France, and Russia. Its only allies were Austria-Hungary, which looked dangerously unstable if it lost a war, and Italy, which had more or less adopted a policy of be-friendly-to-everyone and couldn't be counted on to join in a war (in 1914, it did declare its neutrality). Internally, Germany had a rather sharp revolutionary/reactionary divide, a rather common feature in Europe. German foreign policy in the early 1900s was especially bad, as Germany started antagonizing most players, not helped by the tendency of Kaiser Wilhelm II to say things without consulting advisers or considering any coherent policy (which sounds unfortunately familiar to present times). Britain's traditional policy with respect to Europe had been to maintain a splendid neutrality and only intervene to maintain a balance of power on the continent; Germany hoped to convince Britain that France and Russia were greater threats and to bind itself to an alliance with Germany--which was shockingly naive, especially after Germany decided to try for naval parity with Britain in the naval race. The most Britain would have been willing to commit to would have been to stay out of certain offensive wars and to help mediate disputes and restrain other countries, which was far less than Germany wanted, given its fears of Franco-Russian two-front war.
In the lead-up to WWI, there are a series of instructive crises. The first is the Moroccan Crisis, when Kaiser Wilhelm objected to French influence in Morocco, with the hope of being able to break the Entente Cordial (prelude to the Triple Entente) between France and Britain. It didn't, and Germany found no one willing to support its side, so it was forced to back down with no real gains. A few years later, Austria-Hungary annexed Bosnia, to which Russia stridently objected; this time, France and Britain convinced Russia to back down with no real gains from the issue. Then France moved to formalize its status in Morocco as a protectorate, to which Germany (not without reason) objected. Germany bungled the issue by asking for unreasonable demands in compensation (great way to lose support!), and was ultimately forced to settle with minimal compensation. Then Italy invaded the Ottoman Empire to get itself a colony in Libya, which convinced the Balkan minor states that it was finally open time to carve the Ottoman Empire up. The great powers were so terrified of the resulting destabilizing effects that they forced the war to a conclusion, but the Balkan states themselves, upset with who had gotten the spoils, immediately fought each other within a few months to change hands.
In these various crises, major powers had mobilized and prepared for war, sometimes as a bluff, sometimes a fear of war being declared on them (better to mobilize before war gets declared on you), and sometimes as a genuine attempt to get to war first. So when a Serbian terrorist assassinated the heir to the throne of Austria-Hungary, many observers more or less expected that yet another muddling-through would happen. So why didn't it?
It's worth noting that all the major countries had major internal divisions, and governments generally saw war as a way to bring their country in unity--and, ironically, also saw the divisions in other countries as indicating that they wouldn't come together in war (the first part ended up being the case--only the Ottoman Empire failed to see unity in the war, and even then, the Arabs mostly did decide to wait until after the war to move forward on their grievances). There was also a general sense, particularly among the military, that war was inevitable and that it should be timed opportunely. The change in the relative qualities of the armies mattered too: the German's war plan (emphasis on the singular) had them defeating France while Russia mobilized, so the fact that the Russian army was improving, and the military logistics in European Russia in particular were improving, meant that their time frame for defeating France was shrinking.
Ultimately, it was the July Crisis that started the war. Austria-Hungary, after dithering a bit, made up its mind to go to war against Serbia and crush it. The ultimatum it gave was made with the express purpose that it would be so insulting that it wouldn't be accepted. When Serbia did fail to fully accept the ultimatum, Austria-Hungary suddenly got cold feet, but the German high command pushed Austria-Hungary to actually declare war and defeat Serbia before anyone had time to respond. Even then, the initial reaction of countries like Britain and Russia was to try to push Austria-Hungary to achieve just a limited war ("halt in Belgrade"), which Austria-Hungary rejected. Russia's reaction was initially to mobilize against just Austria-Hungary, before the military convinced the tsar to include Germany as well. Germany seems to have made up its mind to go to war against Russia before the declaration of Russian general mobilization, although it delayed its announcement until after the war. Germany's war plan meant invading France and Belgium, and the Belgians and French made their preparations for mobilization for defense at the same time, although France was very careful to maintain that the war would be purely defensive for the purposes of British opinion. Italy decided it couldn't handle another war in the aftermath of its Libyan campaign, and declared its neutrality fairly early on. Britain throughout the entire crisis dithered and essentially deadlocked on whether or not to go to war. The German invasion of Belgium provided enough incentive to get Britain to join the war against Germany (the Germans were distraught, having thought the entire time that Britain would remain neutral).
So what caused the war? In the end, it's hard to boil it down to a single statement that does justice to the situation. My best attempt is that WWI was caused ultimately because the people who had been keeping the peace suddenly decided to not do so this time. There are many reasons why the countries thought that war was justified, indeed potentially useful, and there are many reasons why the countries ended up dividing Europe into two main opposing alliances. Such a situation, however, need not lead to war: the Cold War is a great example of how a dueling alliances need not break out into general war (and the reasons why are similarly debated).
Re: Why 1866 Set the Stage for Two World Wars
#95Germany: too big for Europe, too small for the world. It's worth reviewing the run-up to WWI. The pre-WWI model of Europe, an endless struggle between Great Powers which had gone on for a millennium, is Putin's model of the world. That's because it gives Russia a role in the world. As an economic power, Russia is in 12th place, behind S. Korea. In a peaceful, trade-based world, Russia is a bit player. Especially sinc…
Re: Why 1866 Set the Stage for Two World Wars
#96Earlier quoted context omitted.
The argument was that the US had gained a "defend the rights of man", i.e. Democracy, attitude because of the Civil War (though honestly with the early end of Reconstruction, I'm not sure it's valid). This attitude eventually encouraged the US to come directly into the War, though the US had been giving significant support to England and France prior to that point. I agree that it's weak though. And Britain is defini…
If the US's involvement was because of 'defend the rights of man', it sure took it's time getting properly involved. It doesn't even really make sense, because it's not like the Germans were going to enslave the French if they won.
I always akin it to tag team wrestling. The first guy beats the other team almost silly, then tags out and the fresh guy comes in fresh and finishes them off.
Re: Why 1866 Set the Stage for Two World Wars
#97Earlier quoted context omitted.
Germany's annexation of Alsace-Lorraine was a source of ongoing resentment by the French. As was France's loss of its status as the dominant land power in Europe. War was not inevitable, but the unresolved issues from the Franco-Prussian war ensured that the two dominant continental powers would be enemies. France's desire to be secure against Germany leads it to form an alliance with Russia, which then puts Germany…
And then the Treaty of Versailles went on to cause the forced repairations and subsequent hyperinflation and depression in Germany leading to the Nazi takeover and WW2.
Re: Why 1866 Set the Stage for Two World Wars
#98Earlier quoted context omitted.
The latest 10 episodes are free. If a new one is put out, the 10th oldest is no longer available. You can buy his discography for something on the order of $50. Remember, if you think his shows are worth a dollar, Dan and Ben would love to have it.
Do you know them personally?
Re: Why 1866 Set the Stage for Two World Wars
#99Tying in the US seems a bit forced here. WWI as a result of Franco-Prussian war I can understand, US civil rights not-so-much. That Germany was 'destined' to lose is a non-starter anyways. From my understanding it was Britain's decision to enter WWI that really shaped the outcome, and that it was far from a foregone conclusion that Britain would enter a continental European war. If the British didn't get involved, Ge…
I still don't get how Franco-Prussian war was the cause for WW-I after nearly 45 years. Sure, French were pissed off with Prussia in 1870 but then almost two generations passed by before WW-I. The whole article talks about France and Germany as if they are each single person fighting with other and waiting for 45 years to take revenge. Lots of things changes during two generations - governments, art, politics, econom…
You could probably go back to the Middle Ages, but let's start with Napoleon. His invasion of the German territories officially destroyed the last vestiges of the Holy Roman Empire. This, of course, was neither holy, nor Roman, nor an Empire any longer; but it did symbolize the national identity of the Germans at the time. (You ought to know that German national identity does not hinge on a political nation state but rather on a shared language, culture and history.) Apart from this abuse of national pride, Napoleon's armies of occupation were seen as evil oppressors, and his forced recruiting of soldiers for the Russian expedition didn't help either.
Napoleon's defeat, though a great relief to the rest of Europe, was a blow to the French pride. (As far as I am aware, he is still a national hero in France to this day.) It was followed by the Vienna Congress and the reordering of Europe, after which there was a period of relative stability. However, the distrust remained, especially as Prussia became more and more powerful.
Come 1871, defeat in the Franco-Prussian War was an absolute disaster for France. It was the greatest humiliation imaginable, both militarily and politically. Its armies outclassed, its king captured, it had to watch as the enemy paraded through the streets of its beloved capital. Adding insult to injury, Bismarck proclaimed Wilhelm of Prussia Emperor of the united Germany in the mirror hall of Versailles - the holy of holies of the French monarchy.
France could not forget. In the next four decades, it watched Germany's growing power with growing fear, seeking alliances to protect itself. At the same time in Germany, France continued to be presented as the historical archenemy. (In this period, a huge statue was built depicting an ancient Germanic tribal leader, Hermann. Symbolically, his raised sword points towards France.)
Everywhere in Europe, nationalistic fever ran high. The lead up to the Great War was an incredibly tangled mess of bad diplomacy that ignited animosity rather than allay it. Everybody knew war was coming, and nobody was trying very hard to prevent it. After all, they thought, it would be short, it would be glorious, and there would be the chance to right old wrongs.
When war came, almost everybody rejoiced. The Franco-Prussian war was still very much in living memory, and the military leaders of France and Germany were baying for blood. Four years of the deadliest war ever seen stilled the peoples' thirst for blood, but not the hate. Now it was France's turn to humiliate Germany, which it did it's utmost to accomplish with the Treaty of Versailles. (Signed, of course, in the same hall of mirrors that had seen Germany's triumph in 1871.)
France tried to ensure that Germany would never be able to fight another war. Of course it failed, and of course the attempt only served to increase German hatred. Hitler and his party then played a masterful game of psychology with the German people, in which the "shame of Versailles" had a very prominent part. War broke out again, the French defenses broke, and once again German soldiers paraded through Paris. Not one to forgo symbolism, Hitler had the French government sign their surrender in the same railway wagon that had seen the signing of the Armistice of Compiègne (which hat ended fighting on the Western Front in 1918). I need not go into the brutality of the ensuing occupation of France.
With this long history of mutual hatred, it is an incredible feat of the post war governments of Germany and France that they managed to forge a friendship between their nations. A lot of the credit is due to Charles de Gaulle and the first German chancellor, Konrad Adenauer. Their Elysee Treaty of 1963 paved the way for what has become a very close international friendship and the center piece of the European Union. But it was a long road.
Re: Why 1866 Set the Stage for Two World Wars
#100And it meant that there was a precedence for taking up arms for equality and freedom...for a war that would, "make the world safe for democracy," as President Woodrow Wilson put it in 1917 when he requested a declaration of war on the German Empire. What was the German Empire doing to threaten equality, freedom, and democracy that France and England and the US weren't also doing? The argument that the US entered beca…
The whole 'world cop' angle is such a fabricated myth; the US never goes to war on principle, only for its own benefit, like any other country.