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What Is the Male Marriage Premium?

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Re: What Is the Male Marriage Premium?

#111

Post by antisthenes »

Oxitendwe wrote: post #104
antisthenes wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guess I'll just start lying about having a kid then.

Is your imaginary kid going to pay into social security? Pay taxes for the roads you drive on? Take up arms to defend your country? If not, then you have no standing to complain when people who contribute more than you are rewarded more than you.

My imaginary kid won't contribute tens of thousands of CO2 to the emissions either.

It will exist solely to assuage the preconceived notions of child-worshiping cretins in management who like to give people preferential treatment based on something that's none of their damn business in the first place.

So you're welcome.

> Take up arms to defend your country?

I'll let you know after your girls serve a tour of active combat duty in an infantry platoon.

Re: What Is the Male Marriage Premium?

#112

Post by DonHopkins »

cm2187 wrote: post #71
DonHopkins wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no value in looking through what you believe is a "current hysterical liberal lens", when it actually makes you act hysterically dramatic and reinforces your inaccurate prejudices against liberals. cm2187: Can you provide some actual proof that liberals believe that anyone who thinks or suggests otherwise than what you're dramatically parodying should be silenced? Or are you just being as hysterical as you ac…

It sounds dramatically parodying but the reality is that it is pretty much the liberal line for the gender pay gap. As the article suggests there might be many explanations for the married man pay gap that may not involve discrimination. However for the gender gap most large companies have made up their mind. And where I work I am being asked at the end of the year in my appraisal, what have I done to reduce this dis…

So no proof, just more hysteria, then accusations that you're being silenced, then when I ask you again for the proof you refused to provide, you go silent. Nobody's silencing you, you're just being downvoted because you're acting the exact same way you're accusing other people of acting, because you can't prove they're acting that way, but your own words and actions prove you're actually acting that way yourself. That's called "psychological projection".

Re: What Is the Male Marriage Premium?

#113

Post by squozzer »

I'm not buying the article's premise, i.e. that pay is determined by productivity or its fascimile. As a counter-hypothesis, I offer the following:

Men are selected / promoted / rewarded based on reliability, women on desirability.

By reliability, I don't mean something mechanical such as defects per million, but closer in meaning to political reliability -- the tendency to adhere to norms and expectations.

By desirability, I don't mean attractiveness, though that might form the largest component, but also availability (would she like me if our situation were a little different?)

Re: What Is the Male Marriage Premium?

#114

Post by zaroth »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #100
zaroth wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not at all! Married men are certainly not more productive because they are married -- marriage, and kids in particular, are a massive drain on productivity. And being married certainly isn't a signal of being more productive, if anything the opposite. I think the OP is assuming far more rationality in wage-setting than actually exists. A single man in his 20s or 30s will be way more productive than the married man wi…

You want stereotypes? OK, I'll give you stereotypes. A single man in his 20s is a slacker. He works hard enough to not get fired, and not much past that. A married man of the same age works hard enough to try to get promoted so he gets paid more. Which is going to be more productive? (Yeah, I know, you say the married man has a lot more distractions - but the single guy is hitting Tinder every minute his boss's back…

I think the ambiguity is between productivity as a result of feeling compelled to work, versus productivity as a result of being more competent.

I think people confound competency into the so-called "marriage penalty" and think along the lines of "more competent workers are more suitable mates and therefore more likely to be married".

But I think it's more likely the increased productivity (if there is any, as there are clearly countervailing forces) is a result of being compelled to work harder because there's a family to support.

So it's not at all clear to me that there's some positive signal to employers from being married. Certainly in the end the married guys get paid a lot more though!

Re: What Is the Male Marriage Premium?

#115

Post by eveningcoffee »

antisthenes wrote: post #111
Oxitendwe wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is your imaginary kid going to pay into social security? Pay taxes for the roads you drive on? Take up arms to defend your country? If not, then you have no standing to complain when people who contribute more than you are rewarded more than you.

My imaginary kid won't contribute tens of thousands of CO2 to the emissions either. It will exist solely to assuage the preconceived notions of child-worshiping cretins in management who like to give people preferential treatment based on something that's none of their damn business in the first place. So you're welcome. > Take up arms to defend your country? I'll let you know after your girls serve a tour of active…

  My imaginary kid won't contribute tens of thousands of 
  CO2 to the emissions either.
One or two kids are not a problem. They are not over the capacity - two parents having two kinds keeps the capacity in balance.

Re: What Is the Male Marriage Premium?

#116

Post by eveningcoffee »

ionised wrote: post #109
Oxitendwe wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is your imaginary kid going to pay into social security? Pay taxes for the roads you drive on? Take up arms to defend your country? If not, then you have no standing to complain when people who contribute more than you are rewarded more than you.

> when people who contribute more than you are rewarded more than you This is one of the shittiest attitudes I've seen on HN in a while. Having a child is not in itself something that qualifies as a greater contribution to the species than anything anyone without children can make. Honestly this is the weirdest kind of child-worship.

If you do not have children then you have to contribute considerably more than people with the children just to offset similarly capable people with the children.

But I do not think that these matters should be handled on the employer/employee level.

Re: What Is the Male Marriage Premium?

#117

Post by DonHopkins »

cookiecaper wrote: post #56
DonHopkins wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like you're looking through some kind of lens that makes liberals look hysterical to you, and you sound pretty hysterical about liberals yourself. You should get your prescription checked, because you're seeing things that aren't there. Remember: liberals are the one who are for paid family leave, which today's "family values" conservatives are against (except for themselves). [1] "Speaker of the House Paul…

Paul Ryan did not pass a law requiring the government to offer him family leave. He set the expectations of the people who were considering electing him. This is the same thing as telling the job interviewer that weekends are off-limits. Ryan is negotiating for himself, not using the government to enforce the policy on an employer who is otherwise unwilling. That is 100% consistent with his political position. He is…

Is your point that it's technically legal for him to be a huge hypocrite totally lacking in empathy and compassion? I'll grant you that.

Re: What Is the Male Marriage Premium?

#118

Post by cookiecaper »

DonHopkins wrote: post #117
cookiecaper wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paul Ryan did not pass a law requiring the government to offer him family leave. He set the expectations of the people who were considering electing him. This is the same thing as telling the job interviewer that weekends are off-limits. Ryan is negotiating for himself, not using the government to enforce the policy on an employer who is otherwise unwilling. That is 100% consistent with his political position. He is…

Is your point that it's technically legal for him to be a huge hypocrite totally lacking in empathy and compassion? I'll grant you that.

My point is that he's not being hypocritical.

There's a difference between believing something should be guaranteed by law and negotiating that same thing as a perk of your employment package.

Re: What Is the Male Marriage Premium?

#119

Post by DonHopkins »

cookiecaper wrote: post #118
DonHopkins wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is your point that it's technically legal for him to be a huge hypocrite totally lacking in empathy and compassion? I'll grant you that.

My point is that he's not being hypocritical. There's a difference between believing something should be guaranteed by law and negotiating that same thing as a perk of your employment package.

I see you can use it in a sentence, but I don't think you really understand what the word hypocrisy means.
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