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What programming languages are used late at night?

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Re: What programming languages are used late at night?

#171

Post by ookdatnog »

kobeya wrote: post #123
thepratt wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest player using Haskell would be Google.

I'm pretty sure the biggest player using Haskell is Microsoft, which develops and maintains Haskell in the first place...

I don't think that's accurate. Microsoft has a role in the development and maintenance of Haskell because they currently employ Simon P. Jones, one of the big driving forces behind Haskell, as a researcher.

However, new versions of Haskell (the language) are created by temporary committees (which are not composed by Microsoft).

GHC (the main implementation) is an open source project with developers from different organizations. According to this page (https://ghc.haskell.org/trac/ghc/wiki/TeamGHC), SPJ is the only one employed by Microsoft. He is one of the core contributors and he owns a large part of the code base, but not to such an extent that GHC can be called a Microsoft project even if Microsoft would want that. Haskell is not a MS product, it has been under development since well before SPJ was employed by MS.

Finally, I'm not aware of MS funding the project beyond paying SPJ's wage.

Re: What programming languages are used late at night?

#173

Post by s_kilk »

Morgawr wrote: post #72
startupdiscuss wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whoah! The big news for me is that there is a programmer who rarely uses SO. I use it constantly. Can you say more about: 1. What your programming set up is. 2. What you do when there is an issue? I didn't know there was a reasonable alternative. I do the Google -> SO a lot. The only time Google brings up a different page is if the question is REALLY basic like how to use a function. Edit: added this postscript: I ha…

I also don't use SO that much, I never have. Maybe I google a few things once in a while and sometimes I stumble upon a StackOverflow page, but never to actually solve errors. It's usually to get a bit more insight out of curiosity. Professionally, I work at Google and internally we have an extensive corpus of knowledge for various problems and programming patterns that really are tied to in-house technologies that d…

> I look at the logs, look at the code...

This bears repeating.

READ \clap\ THE \clap\ FUCK- \clap\ -ING \clap\ LOGS.

READ \clap\ THE \clap\ FUCK- \clap\ -ING \clap\ CODE.

I'm amazed at the devs who just scroll up in the logs to the first error they see, then copy-paste that into google or SO.

Re: What programming languages are used late at night?

#174

Post by evincarofautumn »

empath75 wrote: post #3

"Learning haskell" is pretty much in the same category as "Write that novel I've been thinking about."

I used to feel that way. I tried reading the various tutorial-style learning materials online, such as Learn You a Haskell, but they didn’t really help me learn how to use the language. In the end, I just dove in and started trying to build real software with it, asking questions when I got stuck. Even though there was a lot to learn, it turned out to be pretty easy.

Nowadays Haskell is my #1 programming language for hobby projects—at least when GC is acceptable. And often when I’m trying to design some code in another language, I’ll prototype it in Haskell first to get more clarity of thought and faster iteration.

Re: What programming languages are used late at night?

#175

Post by dualogy »

NickM wrote: post #65
sotojuan wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Learning Haskell has been made much easier with Haskell Book[1]. Unlike LYAH, it actually has a ton of exercises and in-depth explanations so you understand the why behind things as you make progress. That said, it requires discipline to read through. [1] http://haskellbook.com/

The big problem I've had with Haskell is that even after gaining a pretty good understanding of the language (including monads and such) I still can't fathom how to do anything real with it. Exercises are great and all, but once I try to go past exercises, I start getting lost in layers of monad transformers, and I struggle to figure out the "right" way to do anything. It just feels like there are all these layers of…

> I still can't fathom how to do anything real with it

That's incredibly easy, of your list of "problems to attack and programs to write some time soon" pick any one and get busy. It'll feel real-world very soon and there's no better way to grasp "real-world Haskell". The first iteration will be ugly, but on the plus side you'll notice that yourself and that's quite some progress already. Keep at it a bit more and perceived "decent post-newb proficiency" is within reach. Well-rounded mature libraries for "real-world periphery" (DBs, json/yaml/html/xml/all that jazz) abound, too.

What I find much more annoying is the lack of freelance projects. It's literally the language of academics, hobbyists, weekenders, late-nighters, githubbers. (Certainly also suitable for bootstrappers imho in a "Viaweb-Lisp-advantage" kinda way) If you want to avoid full-time employ, you're gonna have to keep doing .net/java/golang/node and such projects. Haskell code-bases I feel are private well-guarded silos within academia and a number of corps, no wider "projects ecosystem" to speak of.

Re: What programming languages are used late at night?

#176

Post by dualogy »

actsasbuffoon wrote: post #49
thepratt wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest player using Haskell would be Google.

Microsoft and Facebook are also using Haskell in production.

I know about FB (Haxl, spam filtering etc) but what exactly is MS using Haskell "in production" for?

Re: What programming languages are used late at night?

#178

Post by [deleted] »

startupdiscuss wrote: post #11
falcolas wrote: post #2

Otherwise written as "what programming languages are being asked about late at night." To me, who rarely pulls up SO, correlating SO questions and page views with usage is a bit biased.

Whoah! The big news for me is that there is a programmer who rarely uses SO. I use it constantly. Can you say more about: 1. What your programming set up is. 2. What you do when there is an issue? I didn't know there was a reasonable alternative. I do the Google -> SO a lot. The only time Google brings up a different page is if the question is REALLY basic like how to use a function. Edit: added this postscript: I ha…

[deleted]

Re: What programming languages are used late at night?

#179

Post by falcolas »

scalatohaskell wrote: post #114
falcolas wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amen. Writing a bash script? Branch off a separate terminal and type `man bash`.

I have a big distaste for bash, and am happy to copy paste anything similar from stackoverflow. Shame on me though!

My biggest concern with this is that there are a lot of really terrible bash script writers out there on the internet, and the quality of code between two different answers will vary wildly.

I'm not going to claim to be a great bash script writer, but I'm better than 80% of what I see out there. Throwing together random fragments is going to cause nearly as many problems as it's meant to solve.

Re: What programming languages are used late at night?

#180

Post by slavik81 »

problems wrote: post #164
kccqzy wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Use address sanitizer and leak sanitizer (-fsanitize=address). Compile with options that forbid omission of frame pointers (-fno-omit-frame-pointer) to get a nice backtrace of where the allocation occurred. Also compile with full debugging info (-g) so that leak errors contain file and line numbers. Problem solved. EDIT: this apparently only works on x86-64 Linux. If you are targeting something else, it might be slig…

How does asan compare with Valgrind? Valgrind is a serious savior for me sometimes, it's able to catch leaks, access violations, use of uninitialized memory, use-after-frees (and it can tell you where it was free'd), data races, etc. Microsoft's heap debugging stuff really doesn't measure up unfortunately, on Windows I'm frequently left grinding my face into the ground when I hit such issues. Fortunately they're fair…

Valgrind misses certain problems with stack memory and runs your program with a 10x slowdown. AddressSanitizer and friends use a lot of extra virtual address space, but run with about a 2x slowdown.

If you're interested in C++ tooling, maybe watch through The Care and Feeding of C++'s Dragons[1] from GoingNative 2013. They start to talk about AddressSanitizer at 55m40s, but the entire thing is really good. The tools they talk about have just gotten even better and more widely available since then.

[1]: https://channel9.msdn.com/Events/GoingNative/2013/The-Care-a...

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