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Young White America Is Haunted by a Crisis of Despair

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Re: Young White America Is Haunted by a Crisis of Despair

#271

Post by emodendroket »

will_brown wrote: post #113
emodendroket wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm guessing the successful people you're describing do not have severe learning disabilities. And I find it at least questionable that parenting has gotten markedly less supportive in the past few decades.

>And I find it at least questionable that parenting has gotten markedly less supportive in the past few decades. Look at the trends of the past few decades: divorce; single parent; and dual income households. There is in fact remarkedly less two parent, supported by single income households, meaning it's a rareity for a child to simply have a parent at home when they return from school to fix them a healthy snack, as…

I'd argue the cause and effect relationship you're positing is backwards.

Re: Young White America Is Haunted by a Crisis of Despair

#272

Post by sbardle »

sbierwagen wrote: post #222
sbardle wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went to a school where a number of friends were not academic in the slightest. They left as soon as they could often with no qualifications but gradually learnt trades. Many now have their own businesses (one is a plasterer, another a builder) and they earn good money, own their own homes, and have no student debt. The reason? They had supportive parents. Many of the people who are falling into despair tragically c…

Apraxia is a motor disorder caused by damage to the brain (specifically the posterior parietal cortex), in which the individual has difficulty with the motor planning to perform tasks or movements when asked, provided that the request or command is understood and he/she is willing to perform the task. I'm sure he would do great as a tradesman.

I didn't appreciate the severity of the condition. My apologies if I come across as insensitive, I should have paid more attention to the original post.

Re: Young White America Is Haunted by a Crisis of Despair

#273

Post by throwanem »

Touche wrote: post #224
framebit wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chris Arnade has a lot of first-hand experience witnessing this modern despair. He writes, "What I saw was huge parts of US, more than reported, was filling with drugs. And where there was drug there was despair." Source: https://medium.com/@Chris_arnade/drugs-despair-and-trump-1c6...

Of course, economic hardship is at the heart of many of society's problems, drugs included. I don't argue with that. What I am skeptical of is the idea that people, once they reach adulthood and see dim prospects, turn to drugs to cope with that depression. The article you linked to pushes the same idea. From my bubbled existence, most of the people who I went to school with who became drug addicts were always part o…

> What I am skeptical of is the idea that people, once they reach adulthood and see dim prospects, turn to drugs to cope with that depression.

Do you really find the idea of people self-medicating depression hard to encompass? I'm having a hard time myself, encompassing the idea that there is anywhere in the world this might seem like a controversial question.

Re: Young White America Is Haunted by a Crisis of Despair

#274

Post by throwanem »

rfc wrote: post #231
okreallywtf wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think that this result is available to everyone willing to work hard? If you come out of high-school and don't achieve this level of success did you fail or are people this outliers? We should try to make a path for success at all levels of education provided you are willing to work for it and not put all our hopes on high-performers and or lucky people.

I'm sure I'll get down voted for this comment but yes, I actually do think this result is available to everyone willing to work hard but not the only reason. The town I grew up in was very polarizing. We had both extreme wealth and extreme poor. As a retrospective, we had very equal opportunities from all income brackets. There were wealthy kids who had huge success but many others who fizzled out and didn't do anyth…

I'm not sure why that word should bother you, or anyone. I was a C student and never went to college, and I can say from firsthand experience that all the determination and hard work in the world wouldn't have meant a damn thing if I hadn't had a lot of things break just right.

Determination and readiness to work hard enable someone to take advantage of an opportunity. But you still need the opportunity.

Re: Young White America Is Haunted by a Crisis of Despair

#275

Post by therpe1 »

thesagan wrote: post #15
posguy wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its the power of capital over labor, whereby capital is extremely stratified in the hands of very few people, and they have shifted political power so as to avoid investment in the laborers (aka everyone below themselves) and ensure they do not become a threat. Additionally, they will usually influence monetary policy to ensure their status is never challenged, which is why rapidly rising housing prices aren't a majo…

Within capitalism itself, some economists also argue that wealth concentration tends to suppress investment opportunities, because there aren't as many "moneyed eyes" on economic events worthy of capital and management; investment gets tunnel vision. I don't have any links on-hand but there's plenty of material out there (from reputable sources, and not-so-reputable ones) with a quick Google search. https://www.googl…

It's another way of saying the labor market is weak. (I can imagine certain economists might use this language because they don't want to be mistaken for labor advocates.)

As long as the labor market is so weak (and it's much, much weaker than many realize) you'll see the widespread dysfunction suggested in the article and more. It acts as a severe economic drag due to decreasing competition everywhere. See [1] and [2].

The problem is not capitalism. We know exactly how to deal with weak labor markets. It is really no mystery at all and you can open up even notoriously simplified Econ101 books and find the answer[3].

But it won't happen. It's difficult to understand exactly why it doesn't happen but it seems like (based on my own, ongoing research) that for many powerful actors a weak labor market is overall a pretty good thing and these same actors have now acquired virtually complete political power. So I would say the problem isn't capitalism, it's just politics as usual.

[1] http://rooseveltinstitute.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Dec...

[2] http://www.ssc.wisc.edu/~nwilliam/Econ702_files/abch.pdf

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keynesian_economics

Re: Young White America Is Haunted by a Crisis of Despair

#276

Post by throwanem »

chrshawkes wrote: post #243
anigbrowl wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No offense, but isn't this just anecdata? I don't deny that people can do extremely well taking non-traditional paths, they certainly can. But pointing out the existence of exceptions isn't a substantive response to the observations about the larger trend. You can always find exceptions to any trend but generalizing from them is fallacious, as any casino owner will be glad to confirm.

I personally make close to 150k per year as a developer and a YouTube personality. I didn't go to college.

> But pointing out the existence of exceptions isn't a substantive response to the observations about the larger trend.

I'm an exception, too. I'm not about to argue that, because I exist, the trend doesn't.

Re: Young White America Is Haunted by a Crisis of Despair

#277

Post by nostrademons »

petra wrote: post #269
nostrademons wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we're seeing faster innovation in certain areas (software, mostly), but much slower in others (material science, medicine, sensors, transportation). Remember that line in The Graduate (1967) - "I want to say one word to you: Plastics." You get a new Javascript framework every 6 months, but the last major materials to gain consumer adoption were carbon fiber & titanium in the 80s. The post-war years saw rapid…

My list of innovations, currently happening is a bit longer:it's yours, plus IOT, VR, synthetic bio, food engineering across the board, ~AI, robotics and automation, genetic engineering(maybe hundreds in clinical trials?), a lot of innovation in medicine, transportation(even without self-driving, on-demand microtransit could replace lots of cars, EV's, affordable super-sonic airplane in development, lighter-than air…

"Every person, the owner of a factory, able to profitably manufacture anything that they can design for a group of like-minded customers." That's the promise behind 3D printing + robotics + the Internet + drone delivery.

"Live where your heart desires. Work on what your brain finds most interesting." Telecommuting + solar + mesh/satellite networking.

Re: Young White America Is Haunted by a Crisis of Despair

#278

Post by marssaxman »

petra wrote: post #269
nostrademons wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we're seeing faster innovation in certain areas (software, mostly), but much slower in others (material science, medicine, sensors, transportation). Remember that line in The Graduate (1967) - "I want to say one word to you: Plastics." You get a new Javascript framework every 6 months, but the last major materials to gain consumer adoption were carbon fiber & titanium in the 80s. The post-war years saw rapid…

My list of innovations, currently happening is a bit longer:it's yours, plus IOT, VR, synthetic bio, food engineering across the board, ~AI, robotics and automation, genetic engineering(maybe hundreds in clinical trials?), a lot of innovation in medicine, transportation(even without self-driving, on-demand microtransit could replace lots of cars, EV's, affordable super-sonic airplane in development, lighter-than air…

I like your list, except for IOT, which is innovation with negative value.

Re: Young White America Is Haunted by a Crisis of Despair

#279

Post by iamacynic »

magic_beans wrote: post #257
cookiecaper wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, you've presumed that my grandfather was white. Second, I'm not connecting the dots anyway. How does this involve race or privilege? One would assume that illiteracy is a substantial disadvantage regardless of one's family background or ethnicity.

Honestly, I assumed he was white because it was entirely unremarkable for a black person your grandfather's age to be illiterate or close to it. (I know your grandpa isn't black). An illiterate black person had almost no chance to have a successful life. > If you have confidence, charm, and enterprising spirit, the world is open despite any particular individual limitations. THAT is white privilege. You must understa…

why do you keep saying white privilege when you keep meaning black disadvantage?

clearly this is not the same thing.

Re: Young White America Is Haunted by a Crisis of Despair

#280

Post by petra »

marssaxman wrote: post #278
petra wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My list of innovations, currently happening is a bit longer:it's yours, plus IOT, VR, synthetic bio, food engineering across the board, ~AI, robotics and automation, genetic engineering(maybe hundreds in clinical trials?), a lot of innovation in medicine, transportation(even without self-driving, on-demand microtransit could replace lots of cars, EV's, affordable super-sonic airplane in development, lighter-than air…

I like your list, except for IOT, which is innovation with negative value.

Thanks. And sure, consumer IOT is bullshit. But industrial IOT is very valuable.
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