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The History of Computer RPGs

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Re: The History of Computer RPGs

#81

Post by ashark »

graphitezepp wrote: post #45
mcv wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I never really saw CRPG being used as an acronym I've always called them CRPGs, to distinguish them from "real" RPGs that involve actual roleplaying, imagination, improvisation and other elements that computers can't really handle. For a roleplayer, a CRPG is a bit of a crutch that can scratch the itch until you can get some friends around the table again. Though perhaps that doesn't quite do CRPGs justice. There a…

It's certainly a worthwhile distinction. Especially in the modern day where 'rpg' elements have been tacked on to everything. Not a lot of actual role playing in something like Mass Effect.

Way more role-playing potential in Mass Effect than, say, your typical JRPG. And than most of the story's-barely-there stat-bashing dungeon crawlers, Western or Eastern. For that matter there's more in Dishonored, and your character doesn't even speak in that one. Of all the games under the RPG tent I'd say Mass Effect is well in the top half as far as having role playing in it, though it's admittedly a pretty low bar.

Re: The History of Computer RPGs

#82

Post by dkersten »

felipepepe wrote: post #60
scott_s wrote: post #58

Planned to also be later crowdfunded into a physical release, sold at cost price. There's a very good chance I would buy a copy. I already have several physical copies of the books Jeremy Parish put out (pdfs: https://gumroad.com/gamespite , physical books: https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=dp_byline_sr_book_1?ie=UTF8&fie... ). Felipe, since I saw you're commenting here, Parish may be a good person to talk to ( https://tw…

Thanks for the tip. The problem is that Parish publish his books through Amazon's CreateSpace, which is powerful but extremely expensive... printing the CRPG Book in color through it would cost more than $60 per unit. :/ I would love to do something like the Bitmap Books ( https://www.bitmapbooks.co.uk/collections/all ), which have great quality and a decent price, all funded via Kickstarter.

FWIW, I too would pay $60 for this (although I obviously would be super happy if it were cheaper).

Re: The History of Computer RPGs

#84

Post by Omnius »

Where does he find the games? I would love to do this i was just a small kid in the 80's and remember these games fondly. Take a swing at them knows seems appealing. How do you even go about getting the games and how do you emulate the environments correctly, my current laptop is missing the turbo button :)

Re: The History of Computer RPGs

#85

Post by LordKano »

I was struck by the lack of "Below The Root", that was the game that made me a computer gamer.

Now that I think of it, maybe it was more of an Adventure game than a true RPG but it still was influential to me.

Re: The History of Computer RPGs

#86

Post by cr0sh »

felipepepe wrote: post #60
scott_s wrote: post #58

Planned to also be later crowdfunded into a physical release, sold at cost price. There's a very good chance I would buy a copy. I already have several physical copies of the books Jeremy Parish put out (pdfs: https://gumroad.com/gamespite , physical books: https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=dp_byline_sr_book_1?ie=UTF8&fie... ). Felipe, since I saw you're commenting here, Parish may be a good person to talk to ( https://tw…

Thanks for the tip. The problem is that Parish publish his books through Amazon's CreateSpace, which is powerful but extremely expensive... printing the CRPG Book in color through it would cost more than $60 per unit. :/ I would love to do something like the Bitmap Books ( https://www.bitmapbooks.co.uk/collections/all ), which have great quality and a decent price, all funded via Kickstarter.

First off - this looks amazing; I'd definitely buy a copy myself (even digital only). I'm going to have to follow your progress on this work!

Now - a couple of suggestions (and I realize this work is still in progress - so maybe these are being considered):

1. You mention Dungeons of Daggorath - so there's a few things I wanted to clear up:

Don't write "Tandy Coco" - the proper term for the machine of the era is the "Radio Shack TRS-80 Color Computer", and there were two main versions; version 1 ("TRS-80 Color Computer 1") was sold with a large gray case (it was originally based off of a machine Radio Shack sold to farmers for Telex information!) and version 2 ("TRS-80 Color Computer 2") with a white case (there are sub-versions within that version, but that's not important). Later, Radio Shack released the Color Computer 3, which looks similar to the Color Computer 2, but had a different keyboard, and vastly upgraded capabilities. However, it was -not- labeled as a TRS-80, but rather as the "Tandy Color Computer 3" - I am not sure of why that name change occurred, but it did.

Now - owners of the machine typically called it the "CoCo" (notice the capitalization - so CoCo 1, CoCo 2, and CoCo 3), but it was never referenced this way by Tandy or Radio Shack. Since Dungeons of Daggorath originally came out prior to the CoCo 2, it would probably be best to label it with "Radio Shack TRS-80 Color Computer" which is generally understood to refer to the original version of the machine, but can also represent the second version as well.

It should be noted here that for the Color Computer 3, a "sequel" to DofD (of sorts) was released, called "Castle of Tharoggad" (notice the spelling!) - but it was poorly received, and most fans of DofD don't like to talk about it.

2. On the Color Computer, there were more than a few other RPG games - for the CoCo 2, one of the earliest was "Gates of Delirium" by Diecom Products (1984) - it was somewhat of a clone of Ultima.

3. Later, the CoCo 3 had "The Seventh/7th Link" released by Oblique Triad - it too was similar to Ultima, but incorporated an interesting 3D system similar to Dungeons of Daggorath for the "dungeon" portions (IIRC). It utilized much of the CoCo 3's better graphics capabilities.

I'm sure I am missing some others in there (which if you are interested, I can dig in my archives for and see what I can find); the Color Computer is near and dear to me, as it is the machine I grew up with and ultimately led to me becoming a software engineer. I still have both of my machines (a CoCo 2 and a CoCo 3), plus all of my issues of the Rainbow Magazine. I keep in touch with a long running listserv with other members who own or love the Color Computer.

Lastly - and I haven't looked at the book deeply to know - I am interested in finding out what you cover on RPGs for the Amiga - there were a few lesser known ones on that machine as well (one - I forget its name - used an early first-person 3D system with flat-shaded objects - when it didn't crash, it was pretty neat to play for the time).

Re: The History of Computer RPGs

#87

Post by Paul_S »

That is fantastically comprehensive. I kept thinking "what about..." and then finding it a few pages later. I'm really impressed. I actually found games I've never heard of. OK, Elona is probably the least well-known cult niche break out success (throw in some more oxymorons into the mix) and everyone's heard of it but it never gets a write-up. And obviously games like the Rance series get ignored as well. On the other hand Undertale and Dwarf Fortress is stretching the term a little bit.

Fantastic work. Needs bigger screenshots.

Re: The History of Computer RPGs

#88

Post by nommm-nommm »

erikb wrote: post #64
nommm-nommm wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>PnP I say "tabletop RPGs."

tabletop and P&P can be distinct as well. Tabletop means, you have a board and character-representing tokens on a table. P&P means the character data is represented on paper tables/sheets/diagrams. You can play one without the other. E.g. Warhammer is tabletop even without RPG.

That's not how I have ever heard the term used and Wikipedia agrees with me.

>A tabletop role-playing game (or pen-and-paper role-playing game) is a form of role-playing game (RPG) in which the participants describe their characters' actions through speech... The terms pen-and-paper and tabletop are generally only used to distinguish this format of RPG from other formats, since neither pen and paper nor a table are strictly necessary

Re: The History of Computer RPGs

#89

Post by khedoros1 »

nommm-nommm wrote: post #88
erikb wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

tabletop and P&P can be distinct as well. Tabletop means, you have a board and character-representing tokens on a table. P&P means the character data is represented on paper tables/sheets/diagrams. You can play one without the other. E.g. Warhammer is tabletop even without RPG.

That's not how I have ever heard the term used and Wikipedia agrees with me. >A tabletop role-playing game (or pen-and-paper role-playing game) is a form of role-playing game (RPG) in which the participants describe their characters' actions through speech... The terms pen-and-paper and tabletop are generally only used to distinguish this format of RPG from other formats, since neither pen and paper nor a table are s…

Erikb's definitions "feel" like they should be right, but yours (and Wikipedia's) are really closer to how I've seen them used by people. Constructing a difference between them sounds like something that could easily happen within a group of friends, if the distinction becomes useful to them.

Re: The History of Computer RPGs

#90

Post by mwfunk »

erikb wrote: post #35
mwfunk wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The term was a lot more common in the '80s and '90s. Back then, certainly in the '80s, "RPG" meant tabletop RPGs. Hence, "CRPG" (computer RPG) was needed as a separate term. Also, in the '80s, computer RPGs were much more directly inspired by tabletop RPGs. Now video game RPGs are their own genre(s), mostly disconnected from the pen and paper games that inspired the first few generations of video games.

I grew up with Fallout 1/2 and Diablo 2. I guess late 90s. Computer RPGs were so common in my circles, that we actually needed a distinct word for tabletop RPGs (we called them "Pen&Paper"). RPG was always the word for computer RPGs. Only through recent new connections to the "Pen&Paper" world I heard people say "cRPG", around 2015-16. So I guess it's more about where you are starting from than the time. Even nowaday…

That makes sense. Heck, maybe the RPG vs. CRPG distinction was more '80s terminology. RPGs were a pretty well-established genre in computer and console games by the late '90s.
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