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Facebook Announces React Fiber, a Rewrite of Its React Framework

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Re: Facebook Announces React Fiber, a Rewrite of Its React Framework

#391

Post by russdpale »

austincheney wrote: post #163
metalliqaz wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I admire your exceptional work cataloguing these resources. However, just one look at that giant horde of links is, to me, a perfect demonstration of why the front-end development ecosystem is way out of control. Its amazing to me that the autoconf/automake/libtool system for making write-once-run-everywhere *nix applications is downright simple by today's standards. Every year the hot libraries change, the build too…

> a perfect demonstration of why the front-end development ecosystem is way out of control. The answer to this is simple but horribly disappointing. In the military we describe this behavior as "justifying your existence". There are three separate causes to this problem. First, solving valid problems is hard in any environment. Dicking around with tooling and configuration is easy. This includes frameworks, abstracti…

So true.. At my fortune 50 company we force ie to render in ie7 engine for our internal reporting. Yes, that ie7...

Re: Facebook Announces React Fiber, a Rewrite of Its React Framework

#392

Post by vertex-four »

ng12 wrote: post #170
segphault wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That issue you linked to is 4 years old and is clearly a reflection of the poster being unfamiliar with React/JSX And yet the underlying issues still remain unaddressed. There aren't better ways to handle the cases raised in that issue, which is why people resort to adding additional non-standard syntax to work around the warts. > Also, I'm not entirely sure what the do/while plugin has to do with JSX. The "do" key…

Ah, sorry I misunderstood the plugin. But to the point -- people do all kinds of crazy things in all kinds of languages with all kinds of tools. That doesn't mean there's anything fundamentally broken about them. Now that I know about the existence of the Do plugin I can also definitively say I have no use for it. It's a band-aid for bad code, not a bad framework. > I don't think you really understand how template li…

To be honest, the lack of it existing in javascript aside, statements-as-expressions is a useful thing - no need to remember the semantics of `if {} else {}` vs `? :`, ability to have very complex (multi-line) expressions, and in languages with RAII, blocks being expressions means it's easy and clear to be able to acquire a resource in order to calculate a single value.

Re: Facebook Announces React Fiber, a Rewrite of Its React Framework

#393

Post by xmatos »

vrde wrote: post #349
metalliqaz wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I admire your exceptional work cataloguing these resources. However, just one look at that giant horde of links is, to me, a perfect demonstration of why the front-end development ecosystem is way out of control. Its amazing to me that the autoconf/automake/libtool system for making write-once-run-everywhere *nix applications is downright simple by today's standards. Every year the hot libraries change, the build too…

The thing that backend devs don't realize is that frontend is not easy. A frontend dev builds something that will be used by a HUMAN, while a backend dev builds something that will be used by a PROGRAM. Related to the comment, things were changing a lot because there is not one single way to do things, as in iOS/Android. There is no standard imposed by a huge private company like Apple or Google. Everyone is free to…

I've been a web developer for 15 years now. Building the UI is always hard and where the waste of time is felt the most. That's why i prefer to work on the backend as much as i can.

I'm against the front x back end split. I think any web dev need to know html, css and js. That's mandatory. Besides that, you should definetely learn the server side too, specially databases, since they'are by far the biggest bottleneck and performance hog you'll need to optimize.

But I'm getting old and I know that because I think everything new is stupid. Once upon a time, we had RAD tools to build UI's, but unfortunately, that's lost in the past...

Re: Facebook Announces React Fiber, a Rewrite of Its React Framework

#394

Post by monkmartinez »

fenomas wrote: post #317
monkmartinez wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it wasn't a problem, it wouldn't be upvoted. That is how voting works. I'm not a JavaScript programmer, although I have dabbled extensively in the past. My impression of this thread is that not much has changed in that world. Sencha, titanium, and Phonegap were super hot back in the day, along with jQuery, SproutCore, Knockout and Backbone. Now it is all different for JS. That fuckng sucks.

> If it wasn't a problem, it wouldn't be upvoted. It's upvoted because it's HN's current favorite holy war. "Front-end development is out of control" is something everyone has an opinion about, in a way that the announcement of React Fiber isn't. That doesn't mean the same debate needs to be re-litigated every two days. Occasionally would be fine, but when it happens in every tangentially related thread it sucks the…

Because it is out of control! You have to have some serious "nalgas" to dive in... I tried some years back and said; "F this" I am going to learn Python and Java. I am not even paid to program in most cases. There is a LOT to be said about stability.

It does need to be reignited or it wouldn't be. It is like being a climate change denier at a climate conference. "Uhhggg why are we talking about this again?" I don't believe its a problem... Well, shit loads of people do!!!!!! SO suck it up buttercup.

Re: Facebook Announces React Fiber, a Rewrite of Its React Framework

#395

Post by lightblade »

danabramov wrote: post #365
lightblade wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does Fiber yield control back to the js engine when doing the "rebasing"? Or are all of these synchronous in one frame?

Yea, it does. We are using requestIdleCallback to do the work "while we can", and then yield the control back. Again, this won't be a part of React 16, but it's part of the bigger picture we are moving towards. Relevant code if you're curious: https://github.com/facebook/react/blob/233195cb6bc632ade61a8...

Interesting...

Since requestIdleCallback leaves the scheduling out of your hand, how do you ensure nodes are still updated when you need it? Like tests?

Re: Facebook Announces React Fiber, a Rewrite of Its React Framework

#396

Post by woah »

girishso wrote: post #238
erikpukinskis wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What was your objection to writing CSS in JS? It would seem like a fairly trivial syntactic transition to go from one to the other? It's just selectors with a dictionary of properties right​?

Writing CSS in Javascript brings back memories of pre-2000 web development, table based layouts and more horribly inline styles inside HTML tags. CSS was a breath of fresh air, it meant separation of concerns.. HTML the content and CSS the visual representation. With the advent of jQuery it allowed separation of behavior as well. With frameworks like React these days, content+behavior is in JavaScript already, and wi…

CSS isn't separation of concerns, it's just separation of filetypes. The problem with inline styles was that you had to repeat them all over the place. This is not the case with Javascript, since it's a programming language and it has an import system. I feel like the sentiment that JSX and JS CSS break separation of concerns is cargo-culting what separation of concerns is all about and why it's useful.

Re: Facebook Announces React Fiber, a Rewrite of Its React Framework

#397

Post by woah »

roguecoder wrote: post #329
red023 wrote: post #187

How does it compare with vue.js? I never worked with any modern JS framework like this but on paper I did not like writing CSS in javascript and vue.js had a normal way to write CSS and to me it looked superior in other ways as well.

Vue is much, much faster to load; it is possible to use vue applications over 3G where React apps choke. Vue is also, in my experience, much easier for back-end developers to contribute to without making app-braking performance mistakes. It has a canonical event-driven store, Vuex, with much nicer debugging tools than any of the flux frameworks (it includes getter values, for example). I have also found the error mes…

What I don't like about Vue is that it still has a clumsy templating pseudolang, whereas JSX lets you do what you need to do with inline JS statements.

Re: Facebook Announces React Fiber, a Rewrite of Its React Framework

#399

Post by curveship »

danabramov wrote: post #343
roguecoder wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vue is much, much faster to load; it is possible to use vue applications over 3G where React apps choke. Vue is also, in my experience, much easier for back-end developers to contribute to without making app-braking performance mistakes. It has a canonical event-driven store, Vuex, with much nicer debugging tools than any of the flux frameworks (it includes getter values, for example). I have also found the error mes…

>I have also found the error messages more meaningful across the ecosystem; React can sometimes produce very unhelpful errors. Can you file an issue next time? We're happy to fix confusing errors. >much, much faster to load I would love to see some data backing it up. I thought they are roughly in the same ballpark with Vue having slightly more built-in APIs but I might be wrong!

>> much, much faster to load

> I would love to see some data backing it up.

In Stefan Krause' js-framework-benchmark, the vue implementation starts in 55ms vs 89-113ms for the various react implementations. See the 'startup time' row here: https://rawgit.com/krausest/js-framework-benchmark/master/we...

I haven't profiled vue and react on this particular benchmark, but I have done so for some of the other implementations. Baring anything exotic during startup, the 'startup time' benchmark comes down to package size. It takes time to fetch, parse, compile and load javascript. React is just a bigger package.

All disclaimers about benchmarks, microbenchmarks, n=1, YMMV, etc apply.

Re: Facebook Announces React Fiber, a Rewrite of Its React Framework

#400

Post by fauigerzigerk »

jakelazaroff wrote: post #387
kerkeslager wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> JavaScript still only has prototypal inheritance; class syntax is just sugar[1]. Sure, but the patterns you use with the class syntax are incompatible with the patterns you use when using object literals, so libraries pick one or the other, typically the class way. > Even with arrow functions, which don't change the binding of "this"[2]? Even with arrow functions, `function` still exists ands is more frequently use…

> Sure, but the patterns you use with the class syntax are incompatible with the patterns you use when using object literals How so? You can still access the prototype. It's just that the most common reason to — declaring instance methods — can be accomplished with the easier-to-read class syntax now. > Even with arrow functions, `function` still exists ands is more frequently used. ES6 is a non-breaking change. You…

>You can use arrow functions for literally every function you write other than generators

But not for every function I read, and that is the problem with all backward compatible fixes to programming languages. You're just piling on more (sometimes better) features on top of all the old brokenness and everybody has to know all of it.

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