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Whistleblower uncovers London police hacking of journalists and protestors

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Re: Whistleblower uncovers London police hacking of journalists and protestors

#171

Post by padmabushan »

candiodari wrote: post #154
snovv_crash wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look at the peaceful transition in South Africa. Do you think that would have happened if the old government thought they could keep hanging on?

People have a funny way to look at how violent a transition and especially leaders are or aren't depending on whether they agree with the outcome. The ANC ... well ... in the words of the Apartheid museum [1] (ie. The South African government's own words): "Demonstrations against the killings followed in many parts of the country and led to the banning of the main African opposition organisations, the African nationa…

"Gandhi sent out his forces" LOLL!! He wasnt in command either! I need what you are smoking!

Re: Whistleblower uncovers London police hacking of journalists and protestors

#172

Post by TallGuyShort »

deadbunny wrote: post #129
dTal wrote: post #122

>The Bindmans LLP law firm, acting on behalf of Jones, contacted six of those listed to verify their passwords (the others could not be traced). In response, five of the six gave passwords that matched those given in the letter, and the sixth was nearly a match. Well jeez no wonder they were hacked if they're that easy to socially engineer. "Verify my password? That's funny, you're the third one this month..."

Blaming the victims? Really?

Why this stigma against acknowledging that potential victims can (and would be wise to) take steps to protect themselves.

Yes, dressing a certain way, drinking a lot of alcohol, and attending a party doesn't begin to excuse rape. But that doesn't mean it was a good idea and is something you should do without considering the possible consequences.

If someone calls and says they work for a security firm, offers to confirm if you were involved in a hack and you do tell them your password, you are probably falling for a scam. That's all GP is saying.

Re: Whistleblower uncovers London police hacking of journalists and protestors

#173

Post by snowpanda »

ue_ wrote: post #162
BearGoesChirp wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given how easy a group can be swayed and controlled given our current centralization of media/culture, our technology, and our understanding of psychology, is it possible for there to ever again be a people's democracy? Giving the vote to the people seems to be inherently giving the vote to those who control the information being fed to the people, be that an oligarchy or the government.

This is partly why I am an anarcho-Communist, in favour of decentralised planning or to a lesser extent market Socialism. I'm not sure what to do about giving the vote to people; arguably democracy is very good, but I would rather have per-commune direct democracy (with instantly recallable delegates or without) rather than a representative democracy. In short, I want to do away with voting for masters, as it will be…

> This is partly why I am an anarcho-Communist

You believe in an oxymoron?

Re: Whistleblower uncovers London police hacking of journalists and protestors

#174

Post by arximboldi »

hunter2_ wrote: post #132
deadbunny wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blaming the victims? Really?

When victims are overtaken by force, coercion, stealth, or a multitude of other reasons, you can't blame them. When a victim in their right mind offers up a secret to someone they didn't authenticate, "victim blaming" as a construct is a stretch.

It is not a stretch. The government must not spy its citizens. Period. They are the only ones to get blame.

If I get my bike stolen I am not be blamed if I use a shitty lock.

If I get raped I am not to be blamed if I was too drunk to resist.

If I get hacked I am not to be blamed if I was susceptible to social engineering.

Yes, it is very useful for potential victims to learn how to best protect themselves. But the moral responsibility in such violations is on the attacker, and is proportional to the damage caused to the victim, not the efforts taken to cause it.

Admittedly, this is part of why part of the crypto-activist community puts me off. Yes, cryptography is a great resistance tool, but my utopia is a society built on cooperation, equality and trust, not one of algebraic fences.

Re: Whistleblower uncovers London police hacking of journalists and protestors

#175

Post by TallGuyShort »

effie wrote: post #114
ak4g wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My siblings in this thread need to learn about the reforms that were done post-Watergate. The rule of law governs everyone, especially law enforcement, in the USA. If you don't believe that, why do you think lawmakers bother with getting laws passed to allow surveillance in the first place? You can't have it both ways. Either LEO follow the letter of the law and we're not in some 1984 scenario (because there are , in…

Rule of law guarantees law will be applied, not that people rights and freedom will be upheld.

And it's not even much of a guarantee of that.

Re: Whistleblower uncovers London police hacking of journalists and protestors

#176

Post by TallGuyShort »

arximboldi wrote: post #174
hunter2_ wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When victims are overtaken by force, coercion, stealth, or a multitude of other reasons, you can't blame them. When a victim in their right mind offers up a secret to someone they didn't authenticate, "victim blaming" as a construct is a stretch.

It is not a stretch. The government must not spy its citizens. Period. They are the only ones to get blame. If I get my bike stolen I am not be blamed if I use a shitty lock. If I get raped I am not to be blamed if I was too drunk to resist. If I get hacked I am not to be blamed if I was susceptible to social engineering. Yes, it is very useful for potential victims to learn how to best protect themselves. But the mo…

That doesn't mean it was a good idea to leave your bike unlocked, get blackout drunk and tell someone your password. I'm all for assigning blame to the police if these allegations are true, but this is a good time to remember: DON'T BE AN IDIOT WHEN YOU CAN EASILY PROTECT YOURSELF.

Re: Whistleblower uncovers London police hacking of journalists and protestors

#177

Post by pdkl95 »

ak4g wrote: post #56
acd wrote: post #49

Its an issue when you self censor opinions which deviate from the mass. It also an issue of freedom of press. The government know who you talk to through metadata collection even if you use encryption.

I find myself self-censoring on topics like this, not because of what I (don't) fear is being done by authorities, but because I can't help but to note that we're not, in fact, living in some Orwellian dystopia, and that seemingly the surveillance that is being done is promulgating a safe and stable society, but not toeing the sky-is-falling line doesn't do much for those numbers by my username. Meanwhile, there are…

> we're not, in fact, living in some Orwellian dystopia

At what point along the path to that dystopia are you going to recognize that a problem exists and fight against it? It's far better to detect and try to fix problems before they spiral out of control. If you're waiting until you see a stereotypical Orwellian dystopia, it's too late.

> surveillance that is being done is promulgating a safe and stable society

Although many people claim surveillance is correlated with safety, there is very little evidence of it having any benefit.

> not toeing the sky-is-falling line doesn't do much for those numbers by my username.

That's not from a any party line, but instead is probably a reaction by the people trying to prevent a dystopian future. Pretending that problems don't exist just because they are not yet sufficiently terrible is how small problems grow into larger problems.

> is undermining the rule of law.

We've seen a many examples of that in recent times. I you believe the US is properly ruled by laws, you haven't been paying attention. We've had a two-tier justice system for such a long time it's spawned slang phrases such as "driving while black". Hang out with public defenders for a few days if you need any more proof.

Re: Whistleblower uncovers London police hacking of journalists and protestors

#178

Post by retube »

NumberCruncher wrote: post #134

>> This alleged criminality is the result of a deliberate government policy of using the police and security services to [...] protect company profits and the status quo. [...] it is not simply the case that the police and security services are just being used by the government. In fact, the police and security services are becoming emboldened to take a more independent role as direct agencies of the ruling elite, ov…

> No comments needed

Except that, you know, not sure how impartial the World Socialist Web Site is likely to be!!

Re: Whistleblower uncovers London police hacking of journalists and protestors

#179

Post by dghughes »

I'm not anti police or law but some chilling recent events worry me.

A similar thing happened in Quebec, Canada.

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/montreal/quebec-journalis...

And in Newfoundland a man who made comments on Twitter criticizing the police was tracked down then hauled off to a psychiatric hospital. He was admitted against his will and using suspicious methods.

http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/news/canada/blog.html?b=new...

Re: Whistleblower uncovers London police hacking of journalists and protestors

#180

Post by simonh »

candiodari wrote: post #143
simonh wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean, like an election?

Yes. That's why, after the "brexit election" a second election needs to be held. You know, to make sure the populace really meant it. Of course, that's an improvement over the rest of Europe. Last time Europe got voted out of parliament they didn't even bother with redoing the election. They just went directly against the election results, like in Greece. Why does anyone still pretend at this point ?

>to make sure the populace really meant it

Bizarre comment. Do you really think the election has a credible chance of overturning the result of the referendum? Or that this is the reason it's being held?

Every time an elected government does something random poster on HN or elsewhere doesn't like, it's the end of democracy and a conspiracy of the elite.

I voted Remain and still believe leaving the EU will harm Britain and the electorate was mislead and conned. But you know what? The electorate are all grown-ups that had access to the same information that I do. We hold regular elections to allow the electorate to change their mind if they are conned. But if they obstinately and persistently refuse to see things my way, well that's fine. Well it isn't, but I'm not going to throw all my toys out of the pram and start crying about it. Politics is messy and imperfect mainly because it's a reflection of us, the voters. Uncomfortable, but true.

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