H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms • Hacker News Board

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#261

Post by throwaway319382 » Wed, Apr 19, 2017, 5:26 AM UTC

dbancajas wrote: post #187

gragas wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>That's not true. The American Universities don't choose to admit foreign students just because. The good schools always try to balance the mix of students admitted into the program. Then why do Indians make up more than 30% of my school's CS program, despite them making up less than 1% of the US population?

because most americans don't like CS?they like arts, history etc.. most indians and foreigners go to CS because of $$ alone. the motivation for a US citizen is "i want to study what my interests are." I assure you, most american-born students get a free pass in stanford/berkeley/CMU if you pit them against a foreign-born. the fact there are almost zero americans mean nobodywants to study it.

You have no idea about the kind of competition that exists for undergrad positions in top-10 CS departments.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#262

Post by ikeyany » Wed, Apr 19, 2017, 5:26 AM UTC

an_cap wrote: post #258

Suppose we lived in an America in which if a black person wanted to work in the tech industry they had to get a special license from the federal government called the H-1Black license. Nobody here on HN would then be discussing if companies were abusing the H-1Black system or whether H-1Black workers were being paid less than the going market rate. A minimally decent person would notice that the obviously correct thi…

Are you seriously asking why it's ethical to encourage American companies to hire Americans?

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#263

Post by SilasX » Wed, Apr 19, 2017, 5:26 AM UTC

an_cap wrote: post #258

Suppose we lived in an America in which if a black person wanted to work in the tech industry they had to get a special license from the federal government called the H-1Black license. Nobody here on HN would then be discussing if companies were abusing the H-1Black system or whether H-1Black workers were being paid less than the going market rate. A minimally decent person would notice that the obviously correct thi…

Right, if you assume away the legitimacy of national borders and nations' right to determine admittance and membership, than any immigration restriction whatsoever looks pretty atrocious (including H1Bs).

FWIW, the same assumption would eliminate your ability to object when a foreign army wants to peacefully enter on the pretense of just wanting a better life.

And if you assume away the legitimacy of property rights, you look pretty atrocious turning away the homeless from your property.

I don't think it's hard to see why national and property borders might be not objectionable, but blanket racial job restrictions would be.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#264

Post by ageek123 » Wed, Apr 19, 2017, 5:27 AM UTC

an_cap wrote: post #258

Suppose we lived in an America in which if a black person wanted to work in the tech industry they had to get a special license from the federal government called the H-1Black license. Nobody here on HN would then be discussing if companies were abusing the H-1Black system or whether H-1Black workers were being paid less than the going market rate. A minimally decent person would notice that the obviously correct thi…

It's actually not legal for a company to discriminate based on citizenship/country of birth: https://www.eeoc.gov/laws/types/nationalorigin.cfm

However, the US government can decide who is eligible to work in the country, just like it can decide who is eligible for legal residence, citizenship, etc.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#265

Post by cscurmudgeon » Wed, Apr 19, 2017, 5:28 AM UTC

ikeyany wrote: post #262

an_cap wrote: post #258

Suppose we lived in an America in which if a black person wanted to work in the tech industry they had to get a special license from the federal government called the H-1Black license. Nobody here on HN would then be discussing if companies were abusing the H-1Black system or whether H-1Black workers were being paid less than the going market rate. A minimally decent person would notice that the obviously correct thi…

Are you seriously asking why it's ethical to encourage American companies to hire Americans?

Do American companies sell only in America? India had a "Be Indian Buy Indian" policy for decades. Look how it turned out.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#266

Post by piyush_soni » Wed, Apr 19, 2017, 5:29 AM UTC

davidgay wrote: post #243

hiram112 wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Guess who benefits then? Not the US. If demand at US universities goes down, they might just have to reduce prices. Yeah that would certainly suck for the millions of recent college grads working gig jobs, indebted with tens of thousands of dollars.

The context was PhD students. None of those, at good universities at least, pay for tuition (be it from research grants or TAships). So I would expect the effect on prices to be minimal.

There is a huge pool of international students who join these Universities to take a Masters course, and pay heavy tuition fees. And I have no reason to think they are technically any less than their American counterparts.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#267

Post by seanmcdirmid » Wed, Apr 19, 2017, 5:30 AM UTC

letitgo12345 wrote: post #226

notyourwork wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (how easy is it to replace a CS PhD working on LIDARs for self driving cars?) I have no problem with specializations but how many are in the US doing full stack web or general application development. It seems to me the problem is not surrounding engineers who specialize in a minority field like LIDAR. The problem is when you have a team of 15 engineers building a web application platform and 13 are H1Bs. Also, don…

PhD in CS at a top university in the US and from India originally. To be honest, from my perspective, the H1B basically doesn't exist (unless I'm working at a university which doesn't have a quota). No way am I gonna gamble on getting lucky with the lottery vs just seeking more stable circumstances outside the US.

H1B success rate isn't that bad. If you got hired at Facebook or some other big tech company, they would figure something out, even if that meant holding in Vancouver or London to qualify for an easier to get transfer visa.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#268

Post by an_cap » Wed, Apr 19, 2017, 5:30 AM UTC

ikeyany wrote: post #262

an_cap wrote: post #258

Suppose we lived in an America in which if a black person wanted to work in the tech industry they had to get a special license from the federal government called the H-1Black license. Nobody here on HN would then be discussing if companies were abusing the H-1Black system or whether H-1Black workers were being paid less than the going market rate. A minimally decent person would notice that the obviously correct thi…

Are you seriously asking why it's ethical to encourage American companies to hire Americans?

Yes. And I am looking for an answer that couldn't then be used to argue that it's also ethical to encourage White companies to hire Whites.

And I'm not even asking that you don't "encourage" American companies to hire Americans. I'm simply asking that you don't ban (or make it extremely difficult) American companies who do want to hire non-Americans from doing so.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#269

Post by TheBiv » Wed, Apr 19, 2017, 5:31 AM UTC

an_cap wrote: post #258

Suppose we lived in an America in which if a black person wanted to work in the tech industry they had to get a special license from the federal government called the H-1Black license. Nobody here on HN would then be discussing if companies were abusing the H-1Black system or whether H-1Black workers were being paid less than the going market rate. A minimally decent person would notice that the obviously correct thi…

(I'm not arguing for or against, because your question is to explain the logic to you)

I believe the logic comes down to the highest constitution you bind yourself to.

By birth we are bound to our country of birth's constitution and once we become an adult we have the ability to renounce that constitution and apply to be bound by another countries constitution.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#270

Post by qaq » Wed, Apr 19, 2017, 5:31 AM UTC

an_cap wrote: post #258

Suppose we lived in an America in which if a black person wanted to work in the tech industry they had to get a special license from the federal government called the H-1Black license. Nobody here on HN would then be discussing if companies were abusing the H-1Black system or whether H-1Black workers were being paid less than the going market rate. A minimally decent person would notice that the obviously correct thi…

? Needing a work visa is fairly universal thing what does it have to do with discrimination? If US citizen wants to work in EU, Canada, India or whatever other country they too need a work visa.