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Donald Trump to overhaul H-1B visa program

theguardian.com

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Re: Donald Trump to overhaul H-1B visa program

#31

Post by timewarrior »

stocktech wrote: post #25
timewarrior wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I respectfully disagree with that. Maybe your friend wanted to do a startup where he owned the majority voting control in the startup. You can't do it on H1. Maybe he wanted to go meet his family but couldn't because his visa renewal was going on. Maybe he wanted a great opportunity, but the company wasn't setup to do H1 paperwork. H1 was expected to be a temporary state. If you are on H1 and not from India or China…

You're making the point that being H1 is an inconvenience and to be honest, that's fine. It even sounds like your life was improved because you were H1. Would you have had these opportunities if you weren't?

Just because I was able to overcome, doesn't mean the system works fine.

It took a lot of hard work and luck to get me to overcome this. So I would say that my life improved in-spite of H1. I was able to found a startup (and successfully exit) while on H1, which is extremely rare.

Around 2010, the Green Card wait for Indians went from 3-5 years to 20+ years. Many people who moved before or around that time got invested here (bought a house, grew family, kids going to school) and in a way are stuck in a limbo. Many of them are smart and hard working people, who used to have dreams of building companies. But after a decade in limbo, all they talk about is the next H1 renewal and the uncertainties around that.

Now, the best from India are instead choosing to stay in India and build startups there. While the current system is allowing staffing companies bring subpar talent which displaces good American jobs. So yes the H1B system is broken and it needs fixing.

If I had stayed, I would have had different set of opportunities in India. Difficult to predict whether they would have been better or worse!

And it is easy to say "that's fine" - when you are not living the life with constraints.

Re: Donald Trump to overhaul H-1B visa program

#32

Post by davidf18 »

0xcafecafe wrote: post #24
davidf18 wrote: post #2

Of all of the candidates both Republican and Democrat (and including President Obama) only one, President Trump was not in bed with Silicon Valley and Tech companies attempting to depress American Wages and replace Americans with cheaper foreign imports. Even the University of California San Francisco (The UC system trains lots of computer scientists, IT workers) replaced its own IT workers with H1-B Visa imports. Wh…

>>President Obama even allowed spouses of H1-B to work, displacing and lowering wages of yet more American workers. You need to be more informed. Not any H1-B spouse is allowed to work. That provision was created as a bandaid fix to alleviate the problems of people (mostly Indian and Chinese) who have to endure a decade+ long wait to get a green card (due to the stupid EB country cap limits). While that wait continue…

I'm sorry for your personal suffering, but as a systemic issue, immigrants are taking jobs away from Americans. Whether it be in software, healthcare, or other professional job, Americans are being displaced. As for the number of Green cards, I can only take your word for it, but I'm guessing most of them are not displacing college graduates/ STEM/ etc.

179K * .37 is still > 65,000 jobs that Americans could have done filled by others and depressing wage conditions regardless of the field.

Remember that most of the people in the US on H1-B are here because the law which states that there must not be any American capable of filling the job was violated. That is the law.

The H1-B has been used by US firms many of which are very wealthy to try to drive down wage rates. That is the problem.

If someone is here on H1-B according to the law where there is no American with the skill set (perhaps a PhD nuclear physicist that deals with machine learning and nuclear reactions) then that is a completely different matter.

But any H1-B hired for almost any software development there are American that can do the job.

Re: Donald Trump to overhaul H-1B visa program

#33

Post by davidf18 »

maxxxxx wrote: post #20
davidf18 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's true he was from there, but he also located there so that he would not have to compete with SV for labor.

I read his biography and I never read about this being a factor. They just wanted to move home from Albuquerque.

And of course, biographies are 100% correct, especially on what might be a contentious issue.

Re: Donald Trump to overhaul H-1B visa program

#34

Post by aanm1988 »

employee8000 wrote: post #10
timewarrior wrote: post #5

The intent of H1-B was to get talented immigrants for jobs for which we had a shortage of American labor. Instead it has become a tool for indentured labor of foreigners (especially Indians) to be used to suppress wages and exploit the foreign nationals. I have suffered because of this. I spent 6 years on H1 with no end in sight. It would take at least 20 years for Indians to get a Green Card. Till then, you have to…

My very good friend is Indian on H1B. In the last 10 years he has had 4 jobs and is making >200k/yr base. I know white people that are in the same job for 10+ years and can't get another job because their skills degraded. H1Bs have mobility and great wages, if you're good, just like citizens.

No, not really. You can't quit at certain stages of the green card process or you start all over. No matter how much you hate your current job you can't just quit. Pick the wrong company and they lay you off, that sucks leave the country now.

Re: Donald Trump to overhaul H-1B visa program

#35

Post by aanm1988 »

davidf18 wrote: post #33
maxxxxx wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read his biography and I never read about this being a factor. They just wanted to move home from Albuquerque.

And of course, biographies are 100% correct, especially on what might be a contentious issue.

I'll believe a perfectly reasonable explanation over a conspiracy theory any day.

Re: Donald Trump to overhaul H-1B visa program

#36

Post by aanm1988 »

davidf18 wrote: post #30
chillacy wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right, I do appreciate facts. But you still haven't provided a source for your claim. Unless you do so, it seems like you're producing a mixture of facts, opinions, and speculation, and calling them all facts.

See my comment above. I recall Gates or other reliable source stating this information and it made sense, because for me, Seattle is boring, boring.

So basically you hate Seattle so you are going to keep pushing this narrative?

Re: Donald Trump to overhaul H-1B visa program

#37

Post by StillBored »

maerF0x0 wrote: post #22

How will the government assess who has the top skills? Considering that the industry has a hard time doing this in fairly intensive interview processes, I can't imagine the government will fare as well or better. I, cynically, assume they're just going to be like "PHD is better than masters, is better than bachelor's" etc.

Its actually pretty easy in the US.. Pay! If they aren't being paid in the top 1% then its unlikely they are producing that way. That is why like many things, I think a more "free market" solution here is in order. A requirement for a H1B should be an extreme salary band. That proves that they are actually exceptional, while simultaneously discouraging companies from using them for cheap labor.

Re: Donald Trump to overhaul H-1B visa program

#38

Post by slededit »

davidf18 wrote: post #29
mywittyname wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not stay in Albuquerque then? He and his cofounder both grew up in greater Seattle and the area is home to University of Washington, which has a top-ranked Computer Science program (right behind Berkley, CM, & MIT), making talent easy to find.

> "Why not stay in Albuquerque then?" Couldn't find the tech talent there. > "which has a top-ranked Computer Science program" You do realize this was 40 years ago and as I had already pointed out, things change? Those that have watched the Arthur C. Clark & Stanley Kubrick movie, "2001 A Space Odyssey" know that HAL was created in Urbana, Illinois, home of the Univ of Illinois which is one of the top engineering and…

> I saw it from a reliable source

Yet you can't clarify where this source came from or provide any reference to it. This is worse than hearsay.

Re: Donald Trump to overhaul H-1B visa program

#39

Post by mavelikara »

0xcafecafe wrote: post #24
davidf18 wrote: post #2

Of all of the candidates both Republican and Democrat (and including President Obama) only one, President Trump was not in bed with Silicon Valley and Tech companies attempting to depress American Wages and replace Americans with cheaper foreign imports. Even the University of California San Francisco (The UC system trains lots of computer scientists, IT workers) replaced its own IT workers with H1-B Visa imports. Wh…

>>President Obama even allowed spouses of H1-B to work, displacing and lowering wages of yet more American workers. You need to be more informed. Not any H1-B spouse is allowed to work. That provision was created as a bandaid fix to alleviate the problems of people (mostly Indian and Chinese) who have to endure a decade+ long wait to get a green card (due to the stupid EB country cap limits). While that wait continue…

Spouses of L and J visa holders are able to work; and as you said, 860K immigrants are added to the system every year.

I don't quite understand the grief over spouses of H visa holders from India and China being allowed to work legally. The family, by then, have filed for a green card, made clear indication of wanting to immigrate to the country and are not allowed to do so only because of unfair per-country quota limits.

As an aside, I hope HR 392 [1] passes. It eases out the per-country quota limits for skilled immigration over 5 years. It currently has 173 co-sponsors in the house.

[1]: https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/392

Re: Donald Trump to overhaul H-1B visa program

#40

Post by davidf18 »

aanm1988 wrote: post #35
davidf18 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And of course, biographies are 100% correct, especially on what might be a contentious issue.

I'll believe a perfectly reasonable explanation over a conspiracy theory any day.

It is not conspiracy theory rather a business decision to not want to be in a labor market where your competitors can hire away your best workers. It could also be true that 1. Gates didn't want to locate in SV for that business reason but 2. Deciding that he didn't want to be in SV, he then chose Seattle over another location.

You do understand the business case for not locating his firm in SV? You do understand that at the time he made his decision, that SV and tech was much smaller than today and he wanted to keep his labor rates lower and that locating outside of SV was a way to achieve this.

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