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How YouTube’s Shifting Algorithms Hurt Independent Media

nytimes.com

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Re: How YouTube’s Shifting Algorithms Hurt Independent Media

#21

Post by zobzu »

stcredzero wrote: post #13
Pigo wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the channels I enjoy were all setup through the same service, whatever it may be, it would be easy for me support new media while tracking my budget better. I can be forgetful, and it feels like some subscriptions are built around attaching themselves to your credit card and staying under your radar. But I need to do a better job of supporting these channels I spend so much time on.

This sounds like a problem worth solving. What about a browser add-on, something like Patreauto? You could budget some amount per month, and it would automatically distribute payments to the top 40 video creators you watch?

id use that

Re: How YouTube’s Shifting Algorithms Hurt Independent Media

#22

Post by zobzu »

EJTH wrote: post #7

Well. I guess that the NYT, WaPo and WSJ can be proud of their accomplishment. They managed to hurt the independent media on its revenue, but to their vein it seems like most youtubers actually have a passion for what they do and their subscribers are also smart enough to see through all this bullshit and support their favorite content creators through other means than watching ads.

but theyre nazi creators! (i wish i was misrepresenting their words...)

Re: How YouTube’s Shifting Algorithms Hurt Independent Media

#23

Post by Pxtl »

jerf wrote: post #2

I know at times I may sound like a shill for Patreon, but I have no connection to them whatsoever beyond "normal customer", and don't care if you use a competitive service to them or whatever. But if you are in the position of finding yourself with a growing show like this, I implore you to set up some sort of voluntary subscription revenue as soon as possible, before you embed into the very foundation of your conten…

From a user's perspective, though, I'm a little annoyed how Patreon has "won" in terms of user-backed content. I don't want to commit to a monthly. I would've preferred if something like Flattr had market dominance for this kind of thing.

Although obviously, content producers sided with Patreon because it gives them predictable income, which keeps them from starving.

Re: How YouTube’s Shifting Algorithms Hurt Independent Media

#24

Post by rhizome »

stcredzero wrote: post #13
Pigo wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the channels I enjoy were all setup through the same service, whatever it may be, it would be easy for me support new media while tracking my budget better. I can be forgetful, and it feels like some subscriptions are built around attaching themselves to your credit card and staying under your radar. But I need to do a better job of supporting these channels I spend so much time on.

This sounds like a problem worth solving. What about a browser add-on, something like Patreauto? You could budget some amount per month, and it would automatically distribute payments to the top 40 video creators you watch?

You're describing the Payments feature in the Brave browser:

https://blog.brave.com/introducing-brave-payments/

Re: How YouTube’s Shifting Algorithms Hurt Independent Media

#25

Post by rhizome »

sp332 wrote: post #15
elsonrodriguez wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The flipside to this is that there are people who will never ever pay money for your content, and ad revenue is the only way to directly capitalize on your popularity among those people. This also means that when your ad revenue disappears, you will NEVER get that revenue back. Your only recourse is to get more popular, as your supporters are already buying your merchandise and donating. It's going to become much mor…

But to get money from ads you have to be famous too.

10,000 views means "famous?"

Re: How YouTube’s Shifting Algorithms Hurt Independent Media

#26

Post by sp332 »

rhizome wrote: post #25
sp332 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But to get money from ads you have to be famous too.

10,000 views means "famous?"

10,000 ad views means supporting yourself from ad revenue? I mean if one person buys a t-shirt you've probably made more money, so I don't really see the advantage to ad revenue over merchandising, Patreon etc.

Re: How YouTube’s Shifting Algorithms Hurt Independent Media

#27

Post by jerf »

elsonrodriguez wrote: post #9
jerf wrote: post #2

I know at times I may sound like a shill for Patreon, but I have no connection to them whatsoever beyond "normal customer", and don't care if you use a competitive service to them or whatever. But if you are in the position of finding yourself with a growing show like this, I implore you to set up some sort of voluntary subscription revenue as soon as possible, before you embed into the very foundation of your conten…

The flipside to this is that there are people who will never ever pay money for your content, and ad revenue is the only way to directly capitalize on your popularity among those people. This also means that when your ad revenue disappears, you will NEVER get that revenue back. Your only recourse is to get more popular, as your supporters are already buying your merchandise and donating. It's going to become much mor…

"It's going to become much more difficult to support yourself via creating content if step 1 becomes "be famous"."

You don't have to become famous. One of the things I love about Patreon are how some of my obscure things nobody has ever heard of are now providing a low-to-mid-grade middle class lifestyle for people you've probably never heard of.

Wander around a bit on https://graphtreon.com/ , and bear in mind a lot of what you see is hobby work, not attempts to make a living.

And also bear in mind there is no option where anybody ever just wakes up one day, decides "I'm going to make a living as an Internet content provider!" and a thousand people pour out of the woodwork to give them $3 a month right away. The question is not whether Patreon successfully thrusts success on people... the question is whether it enables it.

i.e., if I love Patreon so much why haven't I switched to make a living on it? Well, I have a realistic view of my own "content creation" skills and realize that it's not really an option for me. Patreon isn't going to magically fix that for me.

Re: How YouTube’s Shifting Algorithms Hurt Independent Media

#28

Post by Oxitendwe »

makomk wrote: post #5
creaghpatr wrote: post #3

It's funny because the NYT pushed an entire beat about companies needing to limit their digital advertising to only respected outlets...you know, like the NYT. In hindsight it was easy for them to play up the "offensive content" straw man, get a few execs riled up, and convince google to kill their upstart competitors.

Precisely. It's not "YouTube's shifting algorithms" that are killing independent media, it's the wave of bad publicity in publications like the New York Times that lead to advertisers pulling out and made allowing ads on anything even vaguely political or controversial an existential danger to YouTube. The algorithms didn't do this by itself. And the clear-cut line between "videos that espoused extremism and hate spe…

Terrorist sympathizers are equivalent to racists now?

Re: How YouTube’s Shifting Algorithms Hurt Independent Media

#29

Post by jerf »

Pxtl wrote: post #23
jerf wrote: post #2

I know at times I may sound like a shill for Patreon, but I have no connection to them whatsoever beyond "normal customer", and don't care if you use a competitive service to them or whatever. But if you are in the position of finding yourself with a growing show like this, I implore you to set up some sort of voluntary subscription revenue as soon as possible, before you embed into the very foundation of your conten…

From a user's perspective, though, I'm a little annoyed how Patreon has "won" in terms of user-backed content. I don't want to commit to a monthly. I would've preferred if something like Flattr had market dominance for this kind of thing. Although obviously, content producers sided with Patreon because it gives them predictable income, which keeps them from starving.

"I don't want to commit to a monthly."

Another part of the reason I tend to support the model is that I've watched micropayments for.... umm... gosh, about 16-18 years now. It isn't going to happen, or if it is, it's going to require something relatively fundamental to shift.

I expanded more on that 3 days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14117016 (Also why I decided I need to disclaim being a shill, since these two things came in quick succession.)

Re: How YouTube’s Shifting Algorithms Hurt Independent Media

#30

Post by HCIdivision17 »

Pxtl wrote: post #23
jerf wrote: post #2

I know at times I may sound like a shill for Patreon, but I have no connection to them whatsoever beyond "normal customer", and don't care if you use a competitive service to them or whatever. But if you are in the position of finding yourself with a growing show like this, I implore you to set up some sort of voluntary subscription revenue as soon as possible, before you embed into the very foundation of your conten…

From a user's perspective, though, I'm a little annoyed how Patreon has "won" in terms of user-backed content. I don't want to commit to a monthly. I would've preferred if something like Flattr had market dominance for this kind of thing. Although obviously, content producers sided with Patreon because it gives them predictable income, which keeps them from starving.

There are other methods, I think. At least one guy I back does it based on a per-comic basis. Granted, the comics are big and usually go longer than a month, but it's pretty good, I think. Takes some of the 'gotta-deliver-constantly' off him, and it only charges what is delivered.

Which may just be an open pre-order on my part. Which is sort of the stupidest way to buy anything, I suppose, except for the social trust aspect I have in him.

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