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How YouTube’s Shifting Algorithms Hurt Independent Media

nytimes.com

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Re: How YouTube’s Shifting Algorithms Hurt Independent Media

#11

Post by stcredzero »

jerf wrote: post #2

I know at times I may sound like a shill for Patreon, but I have no connection to them whatsoever beyond "normal customer", and don't care if you use a competitive service to them or whatever. But if you are in the position of finding yourself with a growing show like this, I implore you to set up some sort of voluntary subscription revenue as soon as possible, before you embed into the very foundation of your conten…

My interest in pitching this so often is my desire to play my little part in sticking a stake in the idea that getting advertising money is the default path to monetization.

If Google and Facebook are The Internet (and for some large number of people, this is likely more than half true, in an empirical time-measurement sense) then The Internet is driven by advertisement. It's just become Cable TV 2.0.

I'd rather move to a world where it's either merely one option among many, or even, dare I dream, a last resort considered vaguely déclassé.

This was presaged by Scott McCloud. http://scottmccloud.com/ http://www.scottmccloud.com/3-home/essays/2003-09-micros/mic...

And it was rejected by the mainstream, led by those with a vested interest in the new status quo. https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2001/06/22

Re: How YouTube’s Shifting Algorithms Hurt Independent Media

#12

Post by whyenot »

creaghpatr wrote: post #3

It's funny because the NYT pushed an entire beat about companies needing to limit their digital advertising to only respected outlets...you know, like the NYT. In hindsight it was easy for them to play up the "offensive content" straw man, get a few execs riled up, and convince google to kill their upstart competitors.

It's sort of weird to blame the New York Times when the articles that prompted the change in YouTube advertising were not published by the NYT. They were published by the Wall Street Journal and the Times of London.

Re: How YouTube’s Shifting Algorithms Hurt Independent Media

#13

Post by stcredzero »

Pigo wrote: post #10
jerf wrote: post #2

I know at times I may sound like a shill for Patreon, but I have no connection to them whatsoever beyond "normal customer", and don't care if you use a competitive service to them or whatever. But if you are in the position of finding yourself with a growing show like this, I implore you to set up some sort of voluntary subscription revenue as soon as possible, before you embed into the very foundation of your conten…

If the channels I enjoy were all setup through the same service, whatever it may be, it would be easy for me support new media while tracking my budget better. I can be forgetful, and it feels like some subscriptions are built around attaching themselves to your credit card and staying under your radar. But I need to do a better job of supporting these channels I spend so much time on.

This sounds like a problem worth solving. What about a browser add-on, something like Patreauto? You could budget some amount per month, and it would automatically distribute payments to the top 40 video creators you watch?

Re: How YouTube’s Shifting Algorithms Hurt Independent Media

#14

Post by stcredzero »

elsonrodriguez wrote: post #9
jerf wrote: post #2

I know at times I may sound like a shill for Patreon, but I have no connection to them whatsoever beyond "normal customer", and don't care if you use a competitive service to them or whatever. But if you are in the position of finding yourself with a growing show like this, I implore you to set up some sort of voluntary subscription revenue as soon as possible, before you embed into the very foundation of your conten…

The flipside to this is that there are people who will never ever pay money for your content, and ad revenue is the only way to directly capitalize on your popularity among those people. This also means that when your ad revenue disappears, you will NEVER get that revenue back. Your only recourse is to get more popular, as your supporters are already buying your merchandise and donating. It's going to become much mor…

It's going to become much more difficult to support yourself via creating content if step 1 becomes "be famous".

It's already becoming like this for certain forms of media. Videogames, in particular. It's amazing how many things become easier, once you've already gotten notable. Come to think of it, it's been true to some degree, even in the days when media only existed in the form of spoken word and songs.

Re: How YouTube’s Shifting Algorithms Hurt Independent Media

#15

Post by sp332 »

elsonrodriguez wrote: post #9
jerf wrote: post #2

I know at times I may sound like a shill for Patreon, but I have no connection to them whatsoever beyond "normal customer", and don't care if you use a competitive service to them or whatever. But if you are in the position of finding yourself with a growing show like this, I implore you to set up some sort of voluntary subscription revenue as soon as possible, before you embed into the very foundation of your conten…

The flipside to this is that there are people who will never ever pay money for your content, and ad revenue is the only way to directly capitalize on your popularity among those people. This also means that when your ad revenue disappears, you will NEVER get that revenue back. Your only recourse is to get more popular, as your supporters are already buying your merchandise and donating. It's going to become much mor…

But to get money from ads you have to be famous too.

Re: How YouTube’s Shifting Algorithms Hurt Independent Media

#16

Post by aw3c2 »

elsonrodriguez wrote: post #9
jerf wrote: post #2

I know at times I may sound like a shill for Patreon, but I have no connection to them whatsoever beyond "normal customer", and don't care if you use a competitive service to them or whatever. But if you are in the position of finding yourself with a growing show like this, I implore you to set up some sort of voluntary subscription revenue as soon as possible, before you embed into the very foundation of your conten…

The flipside to this is that there are people who will never ever pay money for your content, and ad revenue is the only way to directly capitalize on your popularity among those people. This also means that when your ad revenue disappears, you will NEVER get that revenue back. Your only recourse is to get more popular, as your supporters are already buying your merchandise and donating. It's going to become much mor…

Maybe just don't even try to capitalize on those. If you cannot sustain your work via better means then maybe it is just not worth it.

Re: How YouTube’s Shifting Algorithms Hurt Independent Media

#17

Post by arca_vorago »

A few years ago I did an evaluation of google seo to assist with a project. I distinctly remember my conclusion being that due to the proprietary and closed source nature of the algorithms google is using, I predicted they would be tempted to artificially manipulate them to produce profit through siphoning the ad revenue, and that I suspected it was already happening to the blackhat seo technique sites. They weren't taking measures to stop blackhat seo, they were taking measures to profit off them.

All conjecture on my part, but perhaps it's relevant to this story? If the algorithms are the dark secret sauce of your power that no-one talks about, why not abuse them for profit? Publicly you have plausible deniability, because no one can see inside your box but you. If there is enough of a PR issue you can artifically adjust to match the needed PR stance, but still keep the rest of the manipulation system in place.

Especially given googles close ties to the gov, and certain political groups, I question if we really want such a power to exist over the future of the internet.

Re: How YouTube’s Shifting Algorithms Hurt Independent Media

#18

Post by snerbles »

JuliusKaiser wrote: post #6
creaghpatr wrote: post #3

It's funny because the NYT pushed an entire beat about companies needing to limit their digital advertising to only respected outlets...you know, like the NYT. In hindsight it was easy for them to play up the "offensive content" straw man, get a few execs riled up, and convince google to kill their upstart competitors.

Media plays both sides of the coin because they don't care about what happens to other media sources, they care about the ad revenue from clicks to their site. Playing both sides of the coin only increases clicks since both perspectives are engaged.

Or enough of the legacy media sees the clicks as a zero-sum game, and seeks to strangle the competition before it gets too powerful.

Re: How YouTube’s Shifting Algorithms Hurt Independent Media

#19

Post by dkersten »

jerf wrote: post #2

I know at times I may sound like a shill for Patreon, but I have no connection to them whatsoever beyond "normal customer", and don't care if you use a competitive service to them or whatever. But if you are in the position of finding yourself with a growing show like this, I implore you to set up some sort of voluntary subscription revenue as soon as possible, before you embed into the very foundation of your conten…

d love to not even have to go through YouTube at all

Agreed! I already back many of the people I watch regularly on patreon and am sick of all of the irritating adverts, so I'd much rather just download the videos and watch them directly.

Re: How YouTube’s Shifting Algorithms Hurt Independent Media

#20

Post by zobzu »

dkersten wrote: post #19
jerf wrote: post #2

I know at times I may sound like a shill for Patreon, but I have no connection to them whatsoever beyond "normal customer", and don't care if you use a competitive service to them or whatever. But if you are in the position of finding yourself with a growing show like this, I implore you to set up some sort of voluntary subscription revenue as soon as possible, before you embed into the very foundation of your conten…

d love to not even have to go through YouTube at all Agreed! I already back many of the people I watch regularly on patreon and am sick of all of the irritating adverts, so I'd much rather just download the videos and watch them directly.

i just adblock and yes on android too on a rooted device, and patreon everyone that has it setup much much better experience and it doesnt cost much... and yes its unfair to youtube, but hey, they make their own choices that are unfair are well
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