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Courts are using risk-assessment software to sentence criminals

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Re: Courts are using risk-assessment software to sentence criminals

#41

Post by douche »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #21

>While this can be the fastest route, the GPS’s algorithm does not concern itself with factors important to truckers carrying a heavy load, such as the 43’s 1,300-foot elevation drop over four miles with two sharp turns. I know this is somewhat off topic but the lack of advanced options for GPS routing is such a PITA. It would be trivial to add check-boxes for things like: "I'm towing a trailer, don't make me take du…

Or, to cite another case that I see quite often on my commute home: I'm driving a tall panel truck, don't route me onto routes with low-clearance overpasses...

I see beer trucks and U-Hauls with the top six to twelve inches sheared off by the railroad overpass at least once a month.

Re: Courts are using risk-assessment software to sentence criminals

#42

Post by helthanatos »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #21

>While this can be the fastest route, the GPS’s algorithm does not concern itself with factors important to truckers carrying a heavy load, such as the 43’s 1,300-foot elevation drop over four miles with two sharp turns. I know this is somewhat off topic but the lack of advanced options for GPS routing is such a PITA. It would be trivial to add check-boxes for things like: "I'm towing a trailer, don't make me take du…

Google maps normally gives you a few routes and you can choose the best. You can avoid highways, tolls, and ferries. You can preview all your turns. You can add stops if you want. I don't believe Google maps has many weather suggestions, but there are apps to check the whether. I've found Google maps to be better than any built-in GPS in my cars.

Re: Courts are using risk-assessment software to sentence criminals

#43

Post by dsfyu404ed »

eganist wrote: post #28
dsfyu404ed wrote: post #21

>While this can be the fastest route, the GPS’s algorithm does not concern itself with factors important to truckers carrying a heavy load, such as the 43’s 1,300-foot elevation drop over four miles with two sharp turns. I know this is somewhat off topic but the lack of advanced options for GPS routing is such a PITA. It would be trivial to add check-boxes for things like: "I'm towing a trailer, don't make me take du…

> "Yes I'm wealthy enough to afford an iphone, that doesn't mean I want you to send me through a $5 bridge toll" https://www.google.com/search?q=apple+maps+avoid+tolls https://www.google.com/search?q=google+maps+avoid+tolls But I agree with the other ones. Quite a few of them might need better recognition of weight restrictions and other such rules on roadways, though. It in theory shouldn't be hard to develop (self-…

I don't own an iphone (my girlfriend does).

As far as weight restrictions and stuff, I'm talking even simpler than that. The geospatial data and a lot of the traffic flow is already there. It would be an "summer intern size" project to figure out an algorithm that does an ok job identifying route features and traffic flow situations that are not trailer friendly or delivery vehicle friendly (left turns suck). Even for something other than commercial vehicles this is important. Anyone driving a mini-bus with a student/church/summer camp group will run into a route with a really bad intersection or turn.

Re: Courts are using risk-assessment software to sentence criminals

#44

Post by shagie »

michaelt wrote: post #37
dsfyu404ed wrote: post #21

>While this can be the fastest route, the GPS’s algorithm does not concern itself with factors important to truckers carrying a heavy load, such as the 43’s 1,300-foot elevation drop over four miles with two sharp turns. I know this is somewhat off topic but the lack of advanced options for GPS routing is such a PITA. It would be trivial to add check-boxes for things like: "I'm towing a trailer, don't make me take du…

Special GPSes for truckers are available from companies like TomTom and Garmin. If truckers are choosing to save a few hundred bucks by using their smartphones, which don't have the trucker-specific features, surely the fault lies with the trucker for using a consumer-grade product, not with the consumer-grade product for not being professional-grade?

Weight limits, clearances, weight stations, truck routes, city boundaries (transporting material restricted in a city?)...

There is a whole host of features that are trucker specific. Trying to reconcile the hard copy guide for the possible route and a phone based route planner is something I don't want to imagine.

Re: Courts are using risk-assessment software to sentence criminals

#45

Post by macNchz »

michaelt wrote: post #37
dsfyu404ed wrote: post #21

>While this can be the fastest route, the GPS’s algorithm does not concern itself with factors important to truckers carrying a heavy load, such as the 43’s 1,300-foot elevation drop over four miles with two sharp turns. I know this is somewhat off topic but the lack of advanced options for GPS routing is such a PITA. It would be trivial to add check-boxes for things like: "I'm towing a trailer, don't make me take du…

Special GPSes for truckers are available from companies like TomTom and Garmin. If truckers are choosing to save a few hundred bucks by using their smartphones, which don't have the trucker-specific features, surely the fault lies with the trucker for using a consumer-grade product, not with the consumer-grade product for not being professional-grade?

A truck GPS is extremely helpful if you're driving a commercial vehicle any appreciable distance in an unfamiliar place. They include many additional data points in routing: vehicle height for overpass clearance, vehicle weight for bridges, "No Trucks"/"Passenger Cars Only"/"No Commercial Vehicles" restrictions etc. You can get yourself into hot water if you're following car GPS directions with even a mid-sized U-Haul. See: http://11foot8.com

Re: Courts are using risk-assessment software to sentence criminals

#46

Post by mproy »

mcherm wrote: post #29

One of my big concerns is whether the algorithms are institutionalizing racism, with legal decisions that make it impossible to challenge these. After all, the algorithm has been trained on information about recidivism that was collected in a world where racism skews arrest rates, conviction rates, and sentencing.[1] That means the algorithm is almost certainly baking in a racial bias. Now, I'm sure they aren't fooli…

" ... other correlated factors will allow the algorithm to continue to enforce this racism"

Which correlated factors are you thinking of?

Re: Courts are using risk-assessment software to sentence criminals

#47

Post by kpil »

BearGoesChirp wrote: post #33
rayiner wrote: post #8

> These algorithmic outputs inform decisions about bail, sentencing, and parole. Each tool aspires to improve on the accuracy of human decision-making that allows for a better allocation of finite resources. It's really not clear to me that much is gained from having very precise decisions made about bail and sentencing. Trying to predict the future is a fool's errand, whether a judge does it or a computer. It'd be b…

One problem I have seen is that when science is used, people in charge reject the science. One common example is the risk of sex offenders re-offending. It is well known that sex offenders are at a vastly increased risk of offending again. That is also quite false. What data there is on those who re-offend show that sex offenders have some of the lowest rates of recidivism, but people are so conditioned by the incorr…

Doesn't it depend a little on the what sort of sexual offence?

It seems to me that there is a big range of acts that are classified as sexual offences, starting with a grey area bordering to 'being a dickhead' to some seriously messed up sexuality.

I suppose it's possible to learn how not to be a dickhead, but I also think it's hard to change your sexuality.

Re: Courts are using risk-assessment software to sentence criminals

#48

Post by kpil »

HillaryBriss wrote: post #11
rayiner wrote: post #8

> These algorithmic outputs inform decisions about bail, sentencing, and parole. Each tool aspires to improve on the accuracy of human decision-making that allows for a better allocation of finite resources. It's really not clear to me that much is gained from having very precise decisions made about bail and sentencing. Trying to predict the future is a fool's errand, whether a judge does it or a computer. It'd be b…

> It's classic scientism, believing that an algorithmic sentence based on completely arbitrary rules is somehow better than an arbitrary sentence handed out by human judgment it may not be better, but, isn't it more predictable ? also, doesn't it protect a judge and the justice system against charges of favoritism, discrimination, and other kinds of bias? i mean, i'm not a lawyer and i truly don't know ... but weren'…

But the point is that it's fake predictability, as you can't make arbitrarily complex rules and hope to have built the Totally Fair System.

(Provably not, actually.)

The best thing we can do is to admit it's not going to be perfect, and use our own reasoning and feelings, and make sure the process is transparent and the people are held accountable.

Re: Courts are using risk-assessment software to sentence criminals

#49

Post by advisedwang »

mproy wrote: post #46
mcherm wrote: post #29

One of my big concerns is whether the algorithms are institutionalizing racism, with legal decisions that make it impossible to challenge these. After all, the algorithm has been trained on information about recidivism that was collected in a world where racism skews arrest rates, conviction rates, and sentencing.[1] That means the algorithm is almost certainly baking in a racial bias. Now, I'm sure they aren't fooli…

" ... other correlated factors will allow the algorithm to continue to enforce this racism" Which correlated factors are you thinking of?

Some proxies for race: - Where somebody lives - Their name - What sports teams somebody supports - Their finances - consumer preferences - education level - what medical conditions somebody has - political leanings

I'm not saying these factors can't legitimately be used in a risk assessment, but they could be used to make a good bet on race.

Re: Courts are using risk-assessment software to sentence criminals

#50

Post by vmarsy »

mproy wrote: post #46
mcherm wrote: post #29

One of my big concerns is whether the algorithms are institutionalizing racism, with legal decisions that make it impossible to challenge these. After all, the algorithm has been trained on information about recidivism that was collected in a world where racism skews arrest rates, conviction rates, and sentencing.[1] That means the algorithm is almost certainly baking in a racial bias. Now, I'm sure they aren't fooli…

" ... other correlated factors will allow the algorithm to continue to enforce this racism" Which correlated factors are you thinking of?

Even if you are careful to remove all features you think could tell the race (let's say geographic location etc), it could still be giving harsher sentences to minorities if those are treated differently upfront. For instance, it would make sense for the model to learn that the more charges count the harsher the sentence. This sounds right: a bank robbery should be less punished than a bank robbery + a carjacking, at least in the US judicial system.

But now let's say minorities gets a "resiting arrest" charge on top of their original charge more often, because of many factors such as the police bias, the bias of the minorities towards police, etc. (By bias here I mean all spectrum : racism, but also fear of the police etc).

As long as minorities are treated differently upfront, then the model would treat them differently.

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