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UK Prime Minister Theresa May announces intention to hold general election

theguardian.com

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Re: UK Prime Minister Theresa May announces intention to hold general election

#281

Post by Silhouette »

pjc50 wrote: post #262
Silhouette wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always wondered how many realized that "leave" would mean the union is dissolved Can you clarify what you meant here?

Northern Ireland is dependent on having an open border with the Republic, and also has an agriculture-based economy. Some of the possible (likely?) Brexit outcomes mean a closed border with customs posts and the end of agricultural subsides or the ability to sell agricultural products cross-border. There is a clause in the Good Friday Agreement for referendums on Irish reunification: http://www.thejournal.ie/united-i…

I agree that the open border is important for those on both sides. Personally I was hoping that the political leaders of both the UK and EU would start the negotiations by aiming for common ground and establishing some good faith, and the Irish border would surely be one of the areas where everyone could agree a high degree of openness was in everyone's best interests. Alas, they seem to be doing the opposite so far, and now we have this new spanner in the works.

Re: UK Prime Minister Theresa May announces intention to hold general election

#282

Post by tonyedgecombe »

pmontra wrote: post #78
tonyedgecombe wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Labour have already announced they will support it.

According to what I read here the Labour is going to lose many seats. Are those Labour MPs so eager to lose their job? Amazing.

Many were looking to loose their seats after the boundary changes next year, they might prefer their chances now.

Re: UK Prime Minister Theresa May announces intention to hold general election

#283

Post by Silhouette »

irb wrote: post #96
Silhouette wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The trouble is, the Lib Dems under Farron have essentially become a single-issue party. That decision potentially alienates about 1/3 of their previous voter base who voted to Leave, as well as those who did want to Remain but either don't believe in overriding a popular referendum on democratic principles or don't feel strongly enough on the issue to disrupt things further. Given that we're talking about the Lib Dem…

I don't think it alienates any of their base. The Lib Dems have always been hugely pro-Europe, I doubt that anyone who voted Leave would have been a supporter in the first place.

Sorry to reply twice; I can't edit my previous comment any more.

It looks like there's been another poll today that is consistent with what I've seen reported previously: about 1/3 of Lib Dem voters at the last election voted Leave in the referendum, and currently Lib Dem loyalty is lowest among the major parties, with a similar proportion of Lib Dem voters at the last election expecting to vote for someone else at the next one.

Re: UK Prime Minister Theresa May announces intention to hold general election

#284

Post by Silhouette »

DanBC wrote: post #244
Silhouette wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's possibly worth mentioning for those not closely following UK news that "soft Brexit" now usually seems to mean "remaining a member of the Single Market", and "hard Brexit" usually seems to mean "anything less than that". I don't personally think this is a very useful distinction. By this definition, a soft Brexit is what for example the Lib Dems are advocating at the moment. However, I think it is also highly un…

The tea metaphor: "Tea?" "OK, go on." "There's no kettle so I'm burning the house down to heat water." "Now wait a…" "Shut up, I've a clear mandate for tea." https://twitter.com/louisejjohnson/status/829617043582369792

Yes, there's certainly an element of that going on, and it's not surprising that a lot of people are concerned about it.

I suppose to be balanced we should also acknowledge the other side's similarly daft argument that they accept that people voted for tea and yet propose a scheme in which you can't buy any of tea bags, tea leaves, a kettle, an urn, or an instant hot water tap, though it's possible that milk or lemon will still be negotiable. :-)

Re: UK Prime Minister Theresa May announces intention to hold general election

#285

Post by Silhouette »

timrichard wrote: post #141
pmontra wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to what I read here the Labour is going to lose many seats. Are those Labour MPs so eager to lose their job? Amazing.

More amazing if they voted against an election, with the inevitable implication that the current regime is doing a good job and they don't want to take over right now, thanks all the same for asking.

It's all about politics and probably an element of self-interest now, though. Public perception doesn't actually matter in our system until the next election, whenever that is.

So, if opposition MPs want to put that off for another three years, everyone currently sitting as an MP keeps their seat by default, the Tories are still in charge but still only with a narrow working majority, and those in opposition parties have only three years to wait for another shot after cleaning house instead of five years.

I'm not sure whether that sort of rebellion is a realistic prospect given the views expressed so far today, but I think it would be a rational position for opposition MPs to take given the current unpopularity of both Labour and the Lib Dems among the general public.

Re: UK Prime Minister Theresa May announces intention to hold general election

#286

Post by Silhouette »

nicky0 wrote: post #178
timrichard wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More amazing if they voted against an election, with the inevitable implication that the current regime is doing a good job and they don't want to take over right now, thanks all the same for asking.

This is why I have always thought the fixed term parliaments act is a nonsense. What opposition would ever vote against the motion to call an election?

One that expected to be in a worse position afterwards than before, presumably. For example, a party whose MPs are mostly opposed to the current leadership and think it will cost them a lot of seats they currently have if an election is held.

Re: UK Prime Minister Theresa May announces intention to hold general election

#287

Post by NetStrikeForce »

ue_ wrote: post #280
NetStrikeForce wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Privacy, freedom, protection from the tyranny of the majority, equality, fraternity, respect for minorities, socialised and universal healthcare, feminism, ecologism (firefox says this is not a word?)... Those are the ones I care about and I think are at danger.

Democracy is "tyranny of the majority" no matter which way you look at it (I'm still in favour of it though). And I think equality, fraternity, respect for minorities, socialised and universal healthcare, feminism and focus on ecology would be much better served without capitalism. Why didn't you include the right to privacy and freedom of expression too?

Democracy is not the tyranny of the majority. Direct democracy might be, but that's a very narrow view of democracy.

> Why didn't you include the right to privacy and freedom of expression too?

Privacy is literally the first one on my list :)

Freedom of speech (freedom of expression seems a literal translation from Spanish "libertad de expresión" which is "freedom of speech") I agree. I just forgot about it :)

I could add others like separation of powers that I also forgot (and they're under attack if you follow UK politics).

Re: UK Prime Minister Theresa May announces intention to hold general election

#288

Post by NetStrikeForce »

sir_throwaway wrote: post #120
NetStrikeForce wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear you. You even see people openly embracing Enoch Powell's ideas again. Brexit and Trump removed the taboo on fascism and those long time closeted fascists are now very openly pushing their propaganda. The rest of us are too busy defending their right to destroy our society and our values.

As a Tory and a Brexit voter, let me reassure you that I (and my Brexit voting friends) are not closeted fascists. The idea is quite offensive, actually. :)

Second reply to the same comment, because I was curious as to why would you create a throwaway for this debate...

And turns out your other comments are 2 oversimplifying The Guarding and The Independent editorial line / quality and the other two are misleading or a straight lie.

That makes me wonder if you really misunderstood my comment here or are you stirring the pot on purpose? That would explain the need to create a throwaway.

Re: UK Prime Minister Theresa May announces intention to hold general election

#290

Post by [deleted] »

tehwalrus wrote: post #237
smcl wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why vote Lib Dem? If the last election turned out slightly differently and the Conservatives still needed the coalition, I bet they'd be out happily singing the praises of Brexit to us all, and walking back their campaign promises. They previously always had a "were not like Labour/Con" cred, but the coalition showed that this simply is not true

You don't understand the Lib Dems if you think we'd have voted for Brexit. Especially under Clegg.

[deleted]
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