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UK Prime Minister Theresa May announces intention to hold general election

theguardian.com

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Re: UK Prime Minister Theresa May announces intention to hold general election

#261

Post by nthcolumn »

dagw wrote: post #151
nthcolumn wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely this is a Tory own-goal? Petitioning the people again (whilst ignoring the inconvenient ones)? You'd have thought Cameron's dodgy success rate would have put paid to that. Of course your lot fell for the PR one... that worked so we got one on Scotland - ooh squeaky - and then he tried it again on Europe:'not so great' as POTUS would say. How easy will it be to make this an anti-Brexit vote, a vote to keep Scot…

Surely this is a Tory own-goal? Labour is in a bit of leadership dispute and the Article 50 negotiations haven't had time to go bad. Now is probably the best possible time to call an election. This time next year Labour might have gotten their house in order and the first results of the negotiations with the EU will be in and under close scrutiny, and it is very likely the the government will have been forced to make…

Not a two party thing at all though eh? They won't get a majority. There will be no winner at all. They will have to carry on with a minority government trying to negotiate a Brexit they no longer have a mandate for - LOL!

Re: UK Prime Minister Theresa May announces intention to hold general election

#262

Post by pjc50 »

Silhouette wrote: post #236
alkonaut wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always wondered how many realized that "leave" would mean the union is dissolved (The Kingdom, that is - not the European union), and of give those circumstances would rather have voted remain, to keep the UK intact?

I always wondered how many realized that "leave" would mean the union is dissolved Can you clarify what you meant here?

Northern Ireland is dependent on having an open border with the Republic, and also has an agriculture-based economy.

Some of the possible (likely?) Brexit outcomes mean a closed border with customs posts and the end of agricultural subsides or the ability to sell agricultural products cross-border.

There is a clause in the Good Friday Agreement for referendums on Irish reunification: http://www.thejournal.ie/united-ireland-border-poll-3136932-...

Re: UK Prime Minister Theresa May announces intention to hold general election

#263

Post by dagw »

nthcolumn wrote: post #261
dagw wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely this is a Tory own-goal? Labour is in a bit of leadership dispute and the Article 50 negotiations haven't had time to go bad. Now is probably the best possible time to call an election. This time next year Labour might have gotten their house in order and the first results of the negotiations with the EU will be in and under close scrutiny, and it is very likely the the government will have been forced to make…

Not a two party thing at all though eh? They won't get a majority. There will be no winner at all. They will have to carry on with a minority government trying to negotiate a Brexit they no longer have a mandate for - LOL!

They won't get a majority. There will be no winner at all.

That is certainly one possible outcome. However the Tories seem rather convinced that they can keep and even increase their majority (although the Tories do seem to have a thing for taking big bets with the country on election outcomes). And if they end up even just keeping their majority it will remove the whole "Theresa May has no public mandate to negotiate Brexit" argument from the table. It will also give them 5 more years to ride out the Brexit storm before having to face the voters again.

Re: UK Prime Minister Theresa May announces intention to hold general election

#264

Post by nthcolumn »

MatthiasP wrote: post #183
wsc981 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the UK will be fine, post Brexit, as the UK is a very important trading partner for The Netherlands, Denmark & Ireland. These countries don't want harsh punishments for the UK (as Brussels seems intent on) and they want little trade barriers: http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/792782/EU-rebellion-Bloc...

The desire for a trade war with the UK is not exactly high on the continent, especially considering the debt crisis is still looming over Brussels. The UK will probably get a deal like Norway and will be better off without Brussels. But then many other EU countries will ask: Who actually needs the political union?

I don't know where you get your information from with regard to the desire for a trade war. It is wishful thinking at best. The UK will not come to any settlement within the allotted time frame with the EU and will have to accept default terms if they want to continue trading. I don't think we can underestimate the enmity that already exists because of Brexit. There will be a huge payback for this. What is left of the UK will have a huge hostile super-power right on its doorstep.

Re: UK Prime Minister Theresa May announces intention to hold general election

#265

Post by taejo »

lordnacho wrote: post #35

"Simple" explanation is this: - May isn't going to lose to Corbyn - May has a slim majority, meaning she has to negotiate with people within the Conservative Party who might not agree with her on the Brexit terms. - She'll likely get a larger majority, so it makes it easier to deal with the rebels. - For Corbyn, it's interesting. He might be facing another leadership challenge if polls keep looking crap. - He wants t…

> - Why does Corbyn's opinion matter? Well back when Cameron did a deal with Clegg, they did a fixed terms act, meaning elections had to happen every 5 years. This one is within 5 years of the previous, so you actually need a two-thirds majority in Parliament to trigger it.

May says she'll call an election under the Fixed-Term Parliaments Act, and obviously that's the first choice, but now that the Tories are governing without the Lib-Dems, they can also simply repeal the Act (with an ordinary majority).

Re: UK Prime Minister Theresa May announces intention to hold general election

#266

Post by alkonaut »

Silhouette wrote: post #236
alkonaut wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always wondered how many realized that "leave" would mean the union is dissolved (The Kingdom, that is - not the European union), and of give those circumstances would rather have voted remain, to keep the UK intact?

I always wondered how many realized that "leave" would mean the union is dissolved Can you clarify what you meant here?

I meant the odds of Scotland or Northern Ireland leasing the UK may have been different than what the voters thought in the referendum. Or to put it differently: if there had been a third option in the referendum of "Leave, but only if it can be done while keeping the UK intact" how would that option have done in the referendum? (ignoring whether it would be practically possible to have that option).

Re: UK Prime Minister Theresa May announces intention to hold general election

#267

Post by nthcolumn »

Keronk wrote: post #200
nthcolumn wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is also a move to counter the very real threat from SNP.

I don't see how it does that, In effect it makes them stronger by giving them a general election she gives them an indyref. All her arguments against one fall away.

Yes exactly, it is IndyRef lite! She is hoping they lose, thereby negating calls for IndyRef proper. I din't say it wasn't going to backfire spectacularly. I think the whole thing is a huge mistake. Brexit is happening, Article 50 has been triggered and is irrevocable. Unlike the rest of UK, Scotland still appear to have a choice. I can't see how the Tories ever thought this was going to end well.

Re: UK Prime Minister Theresa May announces intention to hold general election

#268

Post by nthcolumn »

davzie wrote: post #199
nthcolumn wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've already had it! Any democracy without a free vote is a sham. Democracies have free speech, and their citizens ought to have a free conscience and privacy is a cornerstone of that - or do you wish to find out what we have to hide (plenty), make windows into all our souls and still want to know what we really, really think? Certainly democracies do not depend on nudge politics, dog-whistle tactics or the thought…

You're being a bit of a bellend. We can hold conservative views and not be fascist, the same as you can hold relatively left-wing views and not want socialism. Life isn't black-and-white, you know that I'm sure and labelling doesn't help anything.

You can hold any views you like in a democracy but you can't pretend your views are conservative when they are mostly shared by fascists. It was a conservative and greatest PM who defeated the last lot of moselys, nobody thought he was a socialist.

Re: UK Prime Minister Theresa May announces intention to hold general election

#269

Post by pjc50 »

wsc981 wrote: post #57
headmelted wrote: post #16

Actually this is just good business for the Tories, and I've long expected it. The opposition is in disarray under Corbyn, and our prime minister has never won an election. This is as easy a victory as Theresa May will ever be able to bank on, and legitimises her leadership in the eyes of a large section of the public. She can also claim (maybe rightly so) that she has the undisputed majority support of the public fo…

I think the UK will be fine, post Brexit, as the UK is a very important trading partner for The Netherlands, Denmark & Ireland. These countries don't want harsh punishments for the UK (as Brussels seems intent on) and they want little trade barriers: http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/792782/EU-rebellion-Bloc...

Define "fine".

It's a bit like pointing out to environmentalists that the earth itself will be fine; it's true but glossing over a huge amount of detail of what might actually be lost.

Possibly the most accurate prophecy I've read on twitter is that we'll gradually forget that people used to migrate to the UK from Ireland for economic reasons, as it becomes the other way round. The UK is likely to move smoothly from importing workers to young people going abroad (with greater difficulty) in order to find work. And the Home Office net migration figures will declare this a success.

Brexit won't demolish the UK, but it will cripple growth and cut us out of a whole bunch of global opportunities.

(Unless the Home Office goes to kick out the 3m Europeans already here, in which case we're back to tanks-in-the-streets apocalypses)

Re: UK Prime Minister Theresa May announces intention to hold general election

#270

Post by sctb »

davzie wrote: post #199
nthcolumn wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've already had it! Any democracy without a free vote is a sham. Democracies have free speech, and their citizens ought to have a free conscience and privacy is a cornerstone of that - or do you wish to find out what we have to hide (plenty), make windows into all our souls and still want to know what we really, really think? Certainly democracies do not depend on nudge politics, dog-whistle tactics or the thought…

You're being a bit of a bellend. We can hold conservative views and not be fascist, the same as you can hold relatively left-wing views and not want socialism. Life isn't black-and-white, you know that I'm sure and labelling doesn't help anything.

Please leave out the name-calling like the guidelines ask.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

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