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Steve Ballmer serves up a data trove about government spending in the US

nytimes.com

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Re: Steve Ballmer serves up a data trove about government spending in the US

#161

Post by movedx »

barking wrote: post #156
JamieF1 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't believe I'm posting something positive about the Irish government but they recently launched this site which is actually pretty decent. Pity other governments don't do the same. http://whereyourmoneygoes.gov.ie

The optics are good but it's effectively useless in determining whether money is being spent wisely or not. It only gives a very high level picture. It would need to allow one to go a whole lot deeper for people to be able to work out what is value and what isn't. How does the office of taoiseach spend €182 million per annum, for example? It should be possible to see exactly where the money was spent all the way down…

> It should be possible to see exactly where the money was spent all the way down to an invoice

With that level of visibility ("down to an invoice"), it's easy for people to take up pitch forks and begin lambasting teachers, for example, for their spending on computer software, materials for class, and so on. Perhaps a doctor's medical decisions would start being questioned left, right, and centre, yet the people doing the questioning have no medical experience or understanding of the patient's needs.

Let me put this another way: do you like being micro managed at your job? Would you like every decision you make regarding public spending, as an individual teacher, to be disputed, criticised and thrown up on Twitter by someone who, for example, doesn't agree with your purchasing of materials to teach a religious class, or a class on evolution, or perhaps a subject you don't think should be taught, like film & television?

I think having the data that's "down to an invoice" available to the state is valuable, but accessible to the public? No. I couldn't get behind that.

EDIT: "if" -> "is"; "ZERO" -> "no"

Re: Steve Ballmer serves up a data trove about government spending in the US

#162

Post by vermontdevil »

dagw wrote: post #153
rottyguy wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Balmer is a lot like some Presidents (like Carter). Hated during their presidency but are elevated subsequent their term once they aren't subjected to the rigors/shackles of operating a large entity.

Balmer is a lot like some Presidents Or like Bill Gates for that matter. Let's not forget how truly despised Gates was in many circles the late 90's, whereas now he's almost universally respected.

I remember the Gates Borg avatar and the bashing over at Slashdot.

Re: Steve Ballmer serves up a data trove about government spending in the US

#163

Post by pluma »

gonvaled wrote: post #41
hoodoof wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems to me lots of companies make $ Do they all get a derogatory psuedonym? adob$ amaz$ face$ goog$ mailchim$ etc etc etc or is the negativity reserved for M$ Suggesting there is something wrong with a software company because it makes money seems to be a blow in from 1990's militant open source philosophy and probably best left in the 1990s.

M$ will never, ever, be forgiven for the FUD that put OS in dire straits.

You don't need to forgive someone to accept that they have changed and that there are bigger problems.

If you hated MS in the '90s/'00s for what they did back then, you should have that same hatred right now, but not especially for MS but also for Apple and (to a lesser extent) Google.

Re: Steve Ballmer serves up a data trove about government spending in the US

#165

Post by ceejay »

Granted, I don't yet know the scope of the project precisely (ie. how detailed and how much information was collected), but if it's as big as I think it is, Steve Ballmer has instantly become one of my favorite people currently inhabiting this planet.

Re: Steve Ballmer serves up a data trove about government spending in the US

#166

Post by pthreads »

aggie wrote: post #38
pthreads wrote: post #2

I am very eager to see what's in store here when it goes live. If indeed it contains accurate, unbiased and factual data then it is a great project. And it is about time someone did it. I wish it was citizen funded instead of rich individuals (even if the intentions are good). But I will take what I can get for now.

Is Steve Ballmer not a citizen? Do you mean crowd-funded? Assuming you're worried about self-interest tainting the project, a crowd-funded project doesn't necessarily eliminate that since someone still has to be in charge. Open-source for peer review would be necessary.

I meant public-funded. My concern was more in terms of funding drying up after a few years if the individual's philanthropic interests change. To me it is not a debate between two choices. It is just the order of preferences. But, like I said this could still be a great project. Looking forward to it's release.

Re: Steve Ballmer serves up a data trove about government spending in the US

#167

Post by gonvaled »

pluma wrote: post #163
gonvaled wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

M$ will never, ever, be forgiven for the FUD that put OS in dire straits.

You don't need to forgive someone to accept that they have changed and that there are bigger problems. If you hated MS in the '90s/'00s for what they did back then, you should have that same hatred right now, but not especially for MS but also for Apple and (to a lesser extent) Google.

Apple is the nail in the coffin. The coffin was ordered by M$.

But the battle, and the war, was lost long before Apple became the behemonth it is now. Apple did nothing to kill OS, it arrived when it was dead.

As for Google, they actually played a positive role back then. Whatever they do now, does not matter anymore. The window of oportunity closed long ago, and it was M$ who did it.

Re: Steve Ballmer serves up a data trove about government spending in the US

#168

Post by bawana »

can we translate this data into performance measures for our politicians? After all, we are paying freshmen congressmen >150K annually with an additional stipend of several million to run their office. EVERY YEAR. How does what they do make a measurable impact on our lives?

Re: Steve Ballmer serves up a data trove about government spending in the US

#169

Post by eeZah7Ux »

movedx wrote: post #161
barking wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The optics are good but it's effectively useless in determining whether money is being spent wisely or not. It only gives a very high level picture. It would need to allow one to go a whole lot deeper for people to be able to work out what is value and what isn't. How does the office of taoiseach spend €182 million per annum, for example? It should be possible to see exactly where the money was spent all the way down…

> It should be possible to see exactly where the money was spent all the way down to an invoice With that level of visibility ("down to an invoice"), it's easy for people to take up pitch forks and begin lambasting teachers, for example, for their spending on computer software, materials for class, and so on. Perhaps a doctor's medical decisions would start being questioned left, right, and centre, yet the people doi…

> it's easy [...] lambasting teachers, for example, for their spending on computer software

And maybe it's a good thing.

> do you like being micro managed at your job?

You are conflating micromanagement with financial control.

In democratic societies, public work is done under public scrutiny. Taxpayers have constitutional rights to review budgets and complain to elected politicians.

Private citizens and companies have privacy, instead, as the "public" and "private" word suggest.

In dictatorships it's the other way around.

Re: Steve Ballmer serves up a data trove about government spending in the US

#170

Post by barking »

movedx wrote: post #161
barking wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The optics are good but it's effectively useless in determining whether money is being spent wisely or not. It only gives a very high level picture. It would need to allow one to go a whole lot deeper for people to be able to work out what is value and what isn't. How does the office of taoiseach spend €182 million per annum, for example? It should be possible to see exactly where the money was spent all the way down…

> It should be possible to see exactly where the money was spent all the way down to an invoice With that level of visibility ("down to an invoice"), it's easy for people to take up pitch forks and begin lambasting teachers, for example, for their spending on computer software, materials for class, and so on. Perhaps a doctor's medical decisions would start being questioned left, right, and centre, yet the people doi…

I disagree. Let me give you an example. Some years ago,the irish police had a grievance, they were paid less pay for holidays than normal working days. This was because when on holiday they were just receiving their normal salary and weren't getting certain other expenses. In other words, these expenses weren't real expenses but a form of tax-free pay. They had been introduced as an under the table pay increase during some negotiation or other, probably as a way of hoodwinking the taxpayer/other workers or circumventing some pay-cap or other. As I understand it this type of thing is/was common in the public service. There have been moves towards openness. Already lists of government payments to private contracters are published in Irish newspapers. Also lists of tax defaulters and details of their settlements are published regularly. Public servants having their salaries and expenses published is just another step further down this road. The same should apply to welfare recipients.

Being able to see who spent what, where and how is probably the greatest way to ensure tax money isn't wasted.

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