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The Great Japan Potato-Chip Crisis

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Re: The Great Japan Potato-Chip Crisis

#51

Post by hkmurakami »

tw04 wrote: post #33
hkmurakami wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are government subsidies being given to every farmer, iirc no matter how small or inefficient your operation. Given that the country is heavily in debt, it's pretty fiscally irresponsible to continue with such a handout.

vs. what? Having no domestic production? And what happens if China decides to start WWIII and they face a prolonged siege with no domestic food production capabilities? Or should they leave the feeding of their entire population up to the whims of the US government? I think the last election should make obvious the folly in that line of reasoning.

I am guessing that you are not familiar with the inefficiency of agricultural land ownership regulation in Japan? Start by making it easier for corporations to own farmland and improve the per area output of the relatively little flat land that the country has (Japan is 73% mountainous[1])

Corporate involvement in agriculture is restricted by the Agricultural Land Law and related laws. Joint stock companies are permitted to participate in the farming sector in two ways. One is as “agricultural production corporations,” which can be established anywhere in the country and are allowed not only to lease farmland but also to acquire ownership rights. These corporations, though, are subject to various conditions, including that they derive over half of their sales from agriculture; that over three-quarters of the total voting rights are held by full-time farmers, farmland rights providers, agricultural cooperatives, and other parties involved in farming; and that full-time farmers account for a majority of the company’s directors. In addition, only joint stock companies that restrict stock transfers are eligible for this status. In short, this designation is for incorporated family-run farms, rather than for ordinary companies.

...

At the time it was enacted, the Agricultural Land Law did not even envisage the possibility of farmland being owned or cultivated by corporate entities. [2]

Even the Agriculture Minister conceded this problem in 2008, but little has changed over the last decade.

At his inaugural press conference in September 2008, newly appointed Minister of Agriculture, Forestry, and Fisheries Shigeru Ishiba expressed his intention to reform Japan's farmland system in the following statement.

"I recognize that the biggest problem in Japanese agriculture lies, in fact, in the farmland system. The crux of the matter, to put it in extreme terms, is that we need a mechanism in which farmland becomes concentrated in the hands of those who are ready and willing to farm it, regardless of whether they are individuals or corporations. We have to put in place a farmland system that includes effective incentives to make this happen. This may raise fears that farms could be resold for speculative purposes or used as illegal dumping grounds, but we must focus on the sickness currently afflicting agriculture and must not lose sight of the way things ought to be. Another problem is that even though there are legal guarantees in place to ensure that farmland is not used for purposes other than farming, many aspects of this mechanism are, in reality, ineffective. I do not believe that such practices as having municipal leaders make recommendations on the use of farmland are truly effective in addressing this issue."

The first half of Ishiba's statement addresses the issue of corporate entry into the agricultural sector, which farmers' organizations have claimed will lead to joint-stock companies reselling farmland for residential or other development or using it for the illegal dumping of industrial waste. The second half addresses the problem that rules empowering municipalities to forcibly transfer unused land to other farmers in order to prevent the abandonment of farmland have become dead letters and do not fulfill their intended function.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_Japan

[2] http://www.tokyofoundation.org/en/articles/2008/let-corporat...

[3] http://www.tokyofoundation.org/en/articles/2008/the-issues-i...

Re: The Great Japan Potato-Chip Crisis

#52

Post by hkmurakami »

emodendroket wrote: post #30
hkmurakami wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are government subsidies being given to every farmer, iirc no matter how small or inefficient your operation. Given that the country is heavily in debt, it's pretty fiscally irresponsible to continue with such a handout.

I'm not sure how much we can trust your vague, half-remembered understanding of Japanese farming subsidies, but it's not clear to me that the right move for a country that's been in a long slump is to start making moves that will destroy domestic industries.

Overhauling exsiting regulation that promotes small scale family farming to one that promotes larger scale, modernized farming methods with improved outputs would strengthen and bolster the domestic ag economy vs its international counterparts, not weaken them.

The current handout to family farmers (many of whom produce paltry crops and own tiny parcels) and their collective lobbying efforts to continue the country's protectionist farming policies is a handout to these rent seekers and stifles the actual long term agricultural output of the country.

Re: The Great Japan Potato-Chip Crisis

#53

Post by glandium »

seunosewa wrote: post #5

I was thinking, "this is ridiculous; why can't they just import more potatoes?" and then I found this: "She also cited regulatory hurdles, which limit the amount of imported potatoes that can be used in products, as partly responsible for the shortage." No, it is primarily responsible for the shortage.

No, the primary cause of the shortage is that 70+% of the potato supply comes from one specific region of Japan, and that that region has had a very bad Typhoon which caused bad crops. IOW, the primary cause of the shortage was a (almost) SPOF in the supply chain.

Re: The Great Japan Potato-Chip Crisis

#54

Post by emodendroket »

iopq wrote: post #50
zaphoyd wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would assume because maintaining some level of domestic food production would be important for national security.

I would assume maintaining healthy trade relationships is important for food shortages like these, as well.

Is the claim here that Japan is not able to trade as often as it would like? That seems to be obviously wrong.

Re: The Great Japan Potato-Chip Crisis

#55

Post by emodendroket »

iopq wrote: post #40
emodendroket wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually what he said is that regulation is "primarily responsible" for the shortage, which seems contentious -- what about the failed crops, after all -- but it seems to me that he probably had some motivation for saying that beyond pedantry.

No amount of failed crops would cause a shortage if trade were free since there's a region in the world SOMEWHERE that's having a good year.

I suppose that's why there are no more famines anymore.

Re: The Great Japan Potato-Chip Crisis

#56

Post by mc32 »

emmelaich wrote: post #13

It still amazes me that potatoes and tomatoes, originally South America only, have become a food staple in just about every country since.

Well, there is also:

  Rice --domesticated in China
  Corn --Mexico
  Wheat --Middle east
These are now pretty universal and are more important than either Tomatoes or Potatoes.

Re: The Great Japan Potato-Chip Crisis

#57

Post by tw04 »

hkmurakami wrote: post #51
tw04 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

vs. what? Having no domestic production? And what happens if China decides to start WWIII and they face a prolonged siege with no domestic food production capabilities? Or should they leave the feeding of their entire population up to the whims of the US government? I think the last election should make obvious the folly in that line of reasoning.

I am guessing that you are not familiar with the inefficiency of agricultural land ownership regulation in Japan? Start by making it easier for corporations to own farmland and improve the per area output of the relatively little flat land that the country has (Japan is 73% mountainous[1]) Corporate involvement in agriculture is restricted by the Agricultural Land Law and related laws. Joint stock companies are permi…

Remind me again how allowing large corporate entities to own farmland improves farm output over allowing farmers who... you know... farm to own the land.

In the US, corporate farms = animal abuse, complete indifference to pollution, and a general lack of accountability to the communities the farms are a part of. Furthermore, it has decimated rural communities across the US.

Re: The Great Japan Potato-Chip Crisis

#58

Post by justinjlynn »

Pitarou wrote: post #46
justinjlynn wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regulatory hurdles in the import/export market are like a person trapped in a sphere at sea. Even when you run out of drinking water inside the sphere, you still don't want the sphere to let in saltwater. It's all water but you shouldn't drink it. Your position makes sense where the sphere is floating in clean fresh drinking water. However, like an ocean is much larger than a lake, there is much more toxic crap on th…

Why do you assume that the primary purpose of the regulatory regime is to maintain high standards?

If it is not and its primary purpose is economic protectionism, in the face of otherwise fair market competition, then I am against intervention. I did not mean to imply that was the purpose for which all those agencies are used, nor did I intend to present a black/white choice in the perception of said matter. In this case, it does appear to be a case of at least limited protectionism; however, my information and expertise here is limited.

Re: The Great Japan Potato-Chip Crisis

#59

Post by nemasu »

nmerouze wrote: post #8

Agriculture in Japan is very under-developed. You add the import restrictions and it leads to produce being twice as expensive (if not more) than most western countries. It also means lack of variety. And organic products are rare. Shortages are a thing bound to happen. I was hoping for TPP to be accepted, but now I am just going to leave the country.

Most western countries? I find the produce, especially if it's in season, is much cheaper than the produce in Canada, and it's fresher too. Food in the United States is ridiculously inexpensive.

Re: The Great Japan Potato-Chip Crisis

#60

Post by emodendroket »

kijin wrote: post #35
emodendroket wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If, as your post seems to be recommending, such regulations were abolished, Japanese farmers would pretty much cease to exist because of their inability to compete with cheaper imports. Maybe you consider that an unacceptable tradeoff for some potato chip shortages but it's not clear that the Japanese share your sense of priorities.

The regulations can be changed without putting domestic farmers out of business. For example, they could add tariffs to imported potatoes to make them cost as much as (or even more than) domestic potatoes, and use the revenue to help Hokkaido farmers rebuild their farms. No need for a hard limit on the imported amount.

True enough, although I'd think that by the time such a huge overhaul were accomplished the shortage would be over.
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