How to Raise a Creative Child – Step One: Back Off (2016) • Hacker News Board

Re: How to Raise a Creative Child – Step One: Back Off (2016)

#91

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Apr 17, 2017, 12:32 AM UTC

replicatorblog wrote: post #82

smackingly wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I'm biased because I'm a no-name physician at a community hospital, but the "best doctors" in my eyes are the ones with the best outcomes, lowest utilization, highest efficiency and highest patient satisfaction. These measures don't correlate well with the physician's credentials. I learned this in residency, which I did just down the street from a "top" university hospital. We out-performed that place on every…

I agree 100%. I didn't mean this as a knock against doctors at local hospitals either. The pediatrician who diagnosed my daughter is a perfectly solid practitioner in a small town in New Hampshire. Not every doctor is going to make a breakthrough on the order of Marshall & Warren, Banting & Best, or other Nobel Laureates. That's ok. The middle of the road physician will save millions of man years worth of lives over…

[deleted]

Re: How to Raise a Creative Child – Step One: Back Off (2016)

#92

Post by hueving » Mon, Apr 17, 2017, 12:32 AM UTC

FussyZeus wrote: post #40

lacampbell wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously with the future of humans doing work so utterly in question right now I 100% don't buy this narrative at all. I don't know who started it, but something about it makes me reach for a tinfoil hat. The general historical trend has been towards automation but I still don't see any massive change in the horizon.

Robots do better work without breaks, rest, coffee and in many cases without even occupying physical space. We're on the edge of automating driving, one of the most complex and demanding tasks humans do on a regular basis. The benefits for the companies are infinite: a completely docile workforce of robots that don't need anything but a steady flow of power. There is no reason to suspect any jobs are safe any more. I…

We continue to automate an simultaneously make new jobs all of the time. The same arguments you used about driving could be applied to the printing press displacing people who copied books, etc. The more technology increases, the more our quality of life seems to improve.

There was almost no automation during the great depression, yet most people were unemployed. Automation has most certainly increased since 2009 and unemployment has fallen.

I'm skeptical there is any correlation between automation and unemployment at all, unless you are measuring job counts in a very specific industry being automated away.

Re: How to Raise a Creative Child – Step One: Back Off (2016)

#93

Post by 77pt77 » Mon, Apr 17, 2017, 12:34 AM UTC

aleem wrote: post #13

padobson wrote: post #9

The parents of ordinary children had an average of six rules, like specific schedules for homework and bedtime. Parents of highly creative children had an average of fewer than one rule. I grew up in a household where compliance to parental authority was the prevailing rule. This made me fairly compliant as an adult (which opens you up for exploitation by peers and authority figures), but this wasn't too difficult to…

From one of the comments on the article > Backing off will no more produce a creative genius than pushing your child. Neither strategy makes the slightest difference to what is essentially an autonomous process. Beethoven's father did not back off. And Lars von Trier's parents left him to his own devices. Both are geniuses and both hated their childhood. > My guess is that most parents who follow Adam Grant's spuriou…

> Feynman realized this when he tried to teach his children and discovered that what worked for his son did not work for his daughter.

Feynman's son was his biological offspring, while the daughter was adopted.

I think this is relevant information that was left out.

Edit: Also, Feynman's son chose to pursuit philosophy, much to Feynman's dismay.

Re: How to Raise a Creative Child – Step One: Back Off (2016)

#94

Post by hueving » Mon, Apr 17, 2017, 12:35 AM UTC

bane wrote: post #34

padobson wrote: post #9

The parents of ordinary children had an average of six rules, like specific schedules for homework and bedtime. Parents of highly creative children had an average of fewer than one rule. I grew up in a household where compliance to parental authority was the prevailing rule. This made me fairly compliant as an adult (which opens you up for exploitation by peers and authority figures), but this wasn't too difficult to…

There's a kind of debate forming on individuals deriving good behavior from core moral principals vs good behavior being externally supplied by some kind of punitive framework. It seems that in cases where the behavior parameters are externally supplied, a person may not have developed any ability to figure out what to do when circumstances change outside of the parameters that were set for them. Whereas when people…

Sounds like phony pop psychology. I was raised with strict rules and was able to derive what to do in other circumstances because I was still taught moral principals. I know plenty of people raised with strict rules but nobody that was raised with completely unexplained rules so it's a bit of a strawman comparison.

Re: How to Raise a Creative Child – Step One: Back Off (2016)

#95

Post by sgustard » Mon, Apr 17, 2017, 12:37 AM UTC

xherberta wrote: post #30

pcarolan wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good point about Feynman. The only thing I've found to work is trying everything until something starts to work. Of course, you start with the books to get ideas for what to try next. Ive got one of those kids that bounces off the walls. The older I get though the less I care. Some kids just can't sit still. Kids are society's problem and when we don't build spaces for them to be kids, its gonna happen.

> Kids are society's problem Respectfully, I'm sad for children whose parents think society is going to look out for them. Every kid deserves a couple of people who take personal responsibility for their behavior and well-being. I have a pretty high tolerance for kids being bouncy and boisterous, but it's always nice to see parents giving the sort of information that helps them become considerate:("Look, that woman's…

Teaching kids to sit for a 90-minute fancy meal sounds like the height of aristocratic folly. Didn't the French Revolution stamp this out? I'd be in favor of my kids learning to cook such a meal, though.

Re: How to Raise a Creative Child – Step One: Back Off (2016)

#96

Post by Spooky23 » Mon, Apr 17, 2017, 12:38 AM UTC

replicatorblog wrote: post #63

In adulthood, many prodigies become experts in their fields and leaders in their organizations. Yet only a fraction of gifted children eventually become revolutionary adult creators. My daughter is being treated for Leukemia by some amazing doctors at Boston Children's Hospital. To my knowledge, none of the health care professionals at this world-class institution have won Nobel Prizes in medicine. All the same, for…

That's a thing that always bothers me about these articles.

If the standard of success for a gifted grade school kid is to be a Nobel laureate, that's a little warped.

My grandfather was one of the smartest guys I ever met. Through the circumstances of fate, he couldn't get education beyond the 8th grade. Yet he tutored my mom in calculus and did all sorts of good things for people. By any standard of mine, he lived a long, fruitful and successful life... yet he's a failure in the debate of an article like this.

Re: How to Raise a Creative Child – Step One: Back Off (2016)

#97

Post by imesh » Mon, Apr 17, 2017, 12:38 AM UTC

alltakendamned wrote: post #60

xherberta wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Kids are society's problem Respectfully, I'm sad for children whose parents think society is going to look out for them. Every kid deserves a couple of people who take personal responsibility for their behavior and well-being. I have a pretty high tolerance for kids being bouncy and boisterous, but it's always nice to see parents giving the sort of information that helps them become considerate:("Look, that woman's…

> French kindergarteners spend 90 minutes sitting down to a white-table-cloth four course meal each day during school. No they don't, I'm not quite sure where you could've got the idea ?

Why we supposed to copy everything the French do? Aren't they regarded as rude? That implies not being considerate...

Re: How to Raise a Creative Child – Step One: Back Off (2016)

#98

Post by c22 » Mon, Apr 17, 2017, 12:38 AM UTC

lacampbell wrote: post #76

Why do you feel entitled to foist your own or other peoples problems onto strangers?

Why do you assume kids are problems to begin with? I have met hundreds of kids during my adult life and the highest any of them has risen to for me is minor annoyance. I've had more trouble from my cars.

Re: How to Raise a Creative Child – Step One: Back Off (2016)

#99

Post by sgustard » Mon, Apr 17, 2017, 12:38 AM UTC

lacampbell wrote: post #31

pcarolan wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good point about Feynman. The only thing I've found to work is trying everything until something starts to work. Of course, you start with the books to get ideas for what to try next. Ive got one of those kids that bounces off the walls. The older I get though the less I care. Some kids just can't sit still. Kids are society's problem and when we don't build spaces for them to be kids, its gonna happen.

Kids are society's problem Did you consider consulting society first before foisting such a responsibility on us?

Um, the raising of children is literally the thing that allows a civilization to continue.

Re: How to Raise a Creative Child – Step One: Back Off (2016)

#100

Post by conorh » Mon, Apr 17, 2017, 12:39 AM UTC

smackingly wrote: post #78

replicatorblog wrote: post #63

In adulthood, many prodigies become experts in their fields and leaders in their organizations. Yet only a fraction of gifted children eventually become revolutionary adult creators. My daughter is being treated for Leukemia by some amazing doctors at Boston Children's Hospital. To my knowledge, none of the health care professionals at this world-class institution have won Nobel Prizes in medicine. All the same, for…

Maybe I'm biased because I'm a no-name physician at a community hospital, but the "best doctors" in my eyes are the ones with the best outcomes, lowest utilization, highest efficiency and highest patient satisfaction. These measures don't correlate well with the physician's credentials. I learned this in residency, which I did just down the street from a "top" university hospital. We out-performed that place on every…

> "These measures don't correlate well with the physician's credentials."

This. I think I've even posted about this here before. This has been my wife's experience too (surgeon). She trained with highly regarded academic surgeons that set the treatment recommendations and standards for her field. Then during her job search she went to a center with, well, surgeons not at all academic and she had a life changing moment because she realized their operations and outcomes (utilization, efficiency etc.) are far far better. At the academic centers you are recognized based on your research and publications, not on your surgical skills. These academic surgeons with relatively little experience are setting the standards for how the operation should be done and what the treatments should be. This is not at all recognized in her field unfortunately and is quite literally harming patients every day because of substandard treatment standards.