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How many jobs really require college?

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Re: How many jobs really require college?

#251

Post by Noumenon72 »

mynameishere wrote: post #193
GCA10 wrote: post #42

Lots of interesting ideas here, but also some wacky or condescending assumptions about other people's lines of work. Let's take two: TRUCK DRIVERS: They don't just move big rigs around. They also need to keep detailed log books, plan out routes, pass inspections -- and know how to talk civilly and constructively to DOT inspectors. An eighth grade education will not get you there. Especially on the last part. The back…

Far from needing a college degree, financial advisors benefit from the unique professional advantage of not needing to exist.

High school doesn't teach you how to bullshit!

Re: How many jobs really require college?

#252

Post by Noumenon72 »

matchagaucho wrote: post #187

When writing Developer job descriptions I typically settle on "Bachelors degree or equivalent" for the education requirement. The best Programmers I've worked with were self-taught autodidacts with insatiable curiosity.

How do people prove they have autodidacted the "equivalent" of a bachelors degree?

Re: How many jobs really require college?

#253

Post by madengr »

ThomPete wrote: post #125
wsxcde wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If all a radiologist does is pattern matching, the market would've replaced them with techs a long time ago. If not in the US, this would've happened in at least a few other countries.

What else do you think a radiologist do?

Perhaps guide a catheter up your artery under real-time x-ray? Isn't that what an interventional radiologist does?

Re: How many jobs really require college?

#254

Post by aphextron »

Any "job" does not require a college degree. A "job" is something that anyone can be trained to do. If you think that the purpose of college is to train you for a "job" then you're doing it wrong. The point of college is teach you the underlying fundamentals of how things like language and science work, so that you can extend those rules and use them to create new things and new ideas. You go to college to learn how to create value, not get a job. There will always be a need for vocational training. But putting in the long, hard work of accumulating intuitive knowledge of the fundamental sciences, and having that knowledge verified by society to assure you haven't deluded yourself, is the only way to operate at the highest level of intellectual ability for anyone short of a true genius.

Re: How many jobs really require college?

#255

Post by madengr »

mankash666 wrote: post #171

It's cute how software engineers are attributed as the likely inventors of HVAC robots. Whatever happened to mechanical & electrical engineers?

EE and ME are not sexy; so 20th century. Labor to be farmed out offshore. Most people think EE is hooking up an Arduino, or ME using Legos. Meanwhile the money is tossed at brogrammers writing sexting apps. /sarcasm.

Re: How many jobs really require college?

#256

Post by Noumenon72 »

Spooky23 wrote: post #65

Most do. Most high school graduates can barely string a sentence together in writing, and are more likely to have similar limitations in reading.

"You need to be able to read and write to do this job" is not the same as "You need college to do this job."

Re: How many jobs really require college?

#257

Post by aphextron »

rnd33 wrote: post #223
Zak wrote: post #77

College degrees largely serve the social function titles of nobility once did. Having one shows that you have a shared set of experiences and a personal investment in a certain set of values and social norms. Requiring one for many jobs is much more about ensuring applicants belong to the class the employer prefers than any specific education the job requires.

True, but regardless of whether you think that is a good or bad thing it's part of the value of a college degree, and should be included in your calculation when you decide if college is worth it. I've seen the insecurity of some of my colleges without degrees, almost like they think college is a mystical place where deep and unique knowledge is shared. That insecurity can really cripple your career.

> That insecurity can really cripple your career.

I struggled with it daily as a self taught developer working at a large company. I eventually dropped out of the workforce and went back to school because of it. I feel pretty awkward now as a 30 something in class with freshman, but the satisfaction and confidence of having that piece of paper seems worth it to me.

Re: How many jobs really require college?

#258

Post by Clubber »

user5994461 wrote: post #239
TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are you teaching people at all? If you hire professionals they either know what you need already, or you tell them "We use X. Go and learn X." There are remote-only outfits, and they do fine - at least as well "We're not getting any work done because we're in an open plan office and we can't hear ourselves think" outfits. But hiring policy is an issue, and so is PM. It needs people with a compatible attitude, and…

How are you supposed to onboard people onto a project? with training and teaching. What do you professionals do? They work with other professionals and progress with each other. What do you do with the world class experts you have? Make them work with other world class experts to make the impossible possible. Again, lots of collaboration and interactions needed! For anything non trivial or not explained by a stack ov…

You give them a task, point them to the source code that the task involves and let them figure it out. They can ask questions here and there, but they won't learn unless they are ass deep in the code trying to figure out what the hell is going on.

I mean the world was educated through text for over a millennia. It works.

Re: How many jobs really require college?

#259

Post by eng_monkey »

aphextron wrote: post #254

Any "job" does not require a college degree. A "job" is something that anyone can be trained to do. If you think that the purpose of college is to train you for a "job" then you're doing it wrong. The point of college is teach you the underlying fundamentals of how things like language and science work, so that you can extend those rules and use them to create new things and new ideas. You go to college to learn how…

Exactly. It is baffling that to this day so many people believe the purpose of University is to provide some sort of vocational training.

Re: How many jobs really require college?

#260

Post by aidenn0 »

Noumenon72 wrote: post #252
matchagaucho wrote: post #187

When writing Developer job descriptions I typically settle on "Bachelors degree or equivalent" for the education requirement. The best Programmers I've worked with were self-taught autodidacts with insatiable curiosity.

How do people prove they have autodidacted the "equivalent" of a bachelors degree?

Considering I've met bachelors holders that couldn't write FizzBuzz in a language of their choice, I wouldn't think that's a huge concern.
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