If your job doesn't require college, then pretty soon it won't require a human either. The more brain required the longer you have until a robot or computer can do it better.
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How many jobs really require college?
141–150 of 314 posts
Re: How many jobs really require college?
#142Earlier quoted context omitted.
What else do you think a radiologist do?
I'm not a radiologist, so I can't answer accurately and I'm not even going to try. If you really want an answer, there's plenty of information on the web. But they're most certainly not just pattern matchers in the same way that I'm not a typist. Also what's your evidence that there's no relation between college degrees and automation? What we know for a fact is that wage growth for people without college degrees has…
I know a couple of radiologist so I know what they are doing and there is nothing in there that won't be possible for a AI to deal with.
The reasons why it isn't being used instead of doctors are mostly political, institutional and human. First doctors will use them as assistants then they will be doing all the work.
But when it comes to actually detecting the patterns which is exactly what a radiologist trains to learn computers are not only better at finding the problems they also find much subtler and thus more early stage signs.
Some people in collage with collage degree have wage growth, you go ask your friend who studied english literature when they last had a pay-rise.
The original claim was that collage meant more use of brain thus better job security.
Thats simply wrong on both accounts.
Re: How many jobs really require college?
#143Sure, very few jobs give you the direct day to day skills required to do a job. That's neither the claim colleges are making, nor the primary reason that business require degrees. This feels like pure opinion with almost no evidence to back it up, divorced from reality. The table displaying apparent sub-percent accuracy for the completely subjective (made up) number of jobs requiring degrees is demonstrating this disconnect hilariously.
I've actually tried hiring people with less schooling than college -- has the author? It tends to not work out that well, especially in tech. Programmers with high school diplomas and two year degrees are usually missing all the theory and most of the practical experience you get during a 4 year degree. Not because someone who skips college can't learn these things, and not because they can't get experience or learn on the job, it just so happens that in the real world they usually don't.
One of the biggest reasons that college is a good idea is that someone with a degree in a field related to the job is more often more capable than someone with only a high school diploma. Not always, of course, but statistically more frequently. So who will the employer choose? The college grad is an easy choice. This means getting a degree is simple market competition for employment, and probably won't go away even if people make convincing sounding arguments. Why would employers choose the minimum necessary qualifications if some candidates will do more? Why would people who want good jobs expect to get hired with less experience than others who are applying for the same job? College is something many people are choosing.
Re: How many jobs really require college?
#144Earlier quoted context omitted.
So your point is that we should ignore any point he made because he thinks something bad on a separate topic? You realize if thats your standard you should probably exclude most famous historical philosophers, along with the 6 billion or so living humans who dont subscribe to modern western philosophy. It turns out you can learn something from people that dont share your values. Or you can read Jezebel all day and ri…
I do understand that anyone from history will have held views that are morally repugnant to anyone in the modern world. Think of Thomas Jefferson and having children with his slaves and I think those children were slaves, while also thinking about the universal rights of man (and not women, blacks, or non-landholding white men). But there is a historic millieu that one has to use to judge that person's views and idea…
To be fair though, if you believe people from antiquity had some highly problematic views (no doubt), then wouldn't it be easy to extrapolate that people a hundred years from now are going to look on your beliefs in horror? I cant imagine slave owners thought they were bad people either. It's easy to write it off because you'll be long gone, so who cares, but we'd be a much better society if we realized a lot of what we think is fundamentally true tends to historically go in and out of fashion, and the people that are out of fashion tend to have ideas most of us havent heard. Again Im not arguing for his views, Im just saying, the reason we have the concept of logical fallacies (ad-hominem being one of them) is history is long and these ideas have worked well.
Re: How many jobs really require college?
#145The author makes a lot of great points here but I took issue with this sentence: All jobs that currently require a degree, should instead require a knowledge test. The employer should not care how the knowledge was obtained, just that the applicant has the knowledge. I would argue that the degree does provide some value beyond what can be easily tested in an interview setting. I'm not sure if it is the only way but t…
To me it looks like we asking young people, in their brightest years (from a neurological point of view) to sit through boring classes, under-qualified teachers, just so that afterwards they'll have proven themselves able to stand a boring job too? That seems very perverse. It is _not_ a "skill" to be able to do what you don't like and be happy with it. It is a skill to learn to (genuinely) like it or get out.
Re: How many jobs really require college?
#146Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can you really expect high school students to perform well in online classes? Does it matter? At what point do we put the failure of the student on the student? Education being unaffordable is a broadly sympathetic position. Not getting an education because you couldn't be troubled to take advantage of a free education is an unsympathetic position. You're giving too much credit to students, they don't know what is be…
>Does it matter? At what point do we put the failure of the student on the student? Education being unaffordable is a broadly sympathetic position. Not getting an education because you couldn't be troubled to take advantage of a free education is an unsympathetic position. Sympathy is besides the point. Look at the bigger picture: if US citizens are unprepared for the jobs the world economy demands, the country fails…
College clearly has value for those who graduate, although sometimes not much compared to what they paid (in dollars, and opportunity). A bigger issue with '100% college' is the dollar and opportunity cost for those people who attend college and don't graduate. I've known many people that just didn't get much benefit out of their year or two of failing out of college, which also cost them thousands of dollars.
Re: How many jobs really require college?
#147Earlier quoted context omitted.
Lots of automation-resistant jobs require "cleverness" which is different than intelligence, and isn't much taught in school anyway.
Can you give a few examples of such jobs, and what consitutes "cleverness" in them? Really curious.
Full stack web development, growth hacking, lead generation/user acquisition, on- and offline marketing and entrepreneurship in general. I have half a dozen close friends who dropped out of high school and/or college and used their raw "ingenuity or shrewdness" rather than any learned skills in order to achieve enormous success (tens of millions of dollars). Some of them in Silicon Valley, but others in boring places and boring fields. In the past there were significant barriers to entry in many fields that required expensive, time consuming, often discriminatory pedigree to pass. These barriers have largely been destroyed over the last decade. The walls have been torn down and the ladders burned (much to the discomfort of those mid-climb), and they aren't coming back. Persistence and cleverness are the deadliest combination these days.
Re: How many jobs really require college?
#148Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ok but still youre not arguing what he said, youre arguing what he is. To me, thats the dark path. It's intellectually dishonest. This is what generally annoys me about the social justice scene: its always about silencing or shunning people, never about engaging them.
Intellectual dishonesty would be denying it. I make no such denial - I have rejected this person's writings because I can't find any reason to believe that this person entertains discussion (or even the idea of discussion) in good faith. I do not do this out of hand, or on a whim. I've read this person's writings before, and have made a genuine attempt to read him charitably. > its always about silencing or shunning…
Your actions contradict your words though. None of what this guy said about education matters to you because ideas from "this kind of person" is the overwhelming factor to you. Who cares if he has a point about college if he doesnt towe the feminist line, basically.
Re: How many jobs really require college?
#149Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ah, yes, but the person who owns the AI radiology business, and the equipment, will happen to be a radiologist.
No they wont. In fact they aren't today so why should they be in the future. And furthermore you need only very few people running a whole radiology business for billions of people.
Maybe radiology is an exception (or my understanding is outdated), but from what I've read, a large portion of the medical industry is doctor-owned. For instance I've read that doctors provide a large portion of the investment pool for big ticket diagnostic equipment, and for businesses such as clinics, provider systems, and malpractice insurance companies.
"The workers own the means of production." ;-)
Re: How many jobs really require college?
#150Lots of interesting ideas here, but also some wacky or condescending assumptions about other people's lines of work. Let's take two: TRUCK DRIVERS: They don't just move big rigs around. They also need to keep detailed log books, plan out routes, pass inspections -- and know how to talk civilly and constructively to DOT inspectors. An eighth grade education will not get you there. Especially on the last part. The back…
My father has been a truck driver from the late eighties on.
He is from rural Mexico and became a naturalized citizen of the US in his early 50s a couple years ago. The extent of his formal education was through 6th grade which was the furthest offered in his area when he grew up; he has had no further contact with the educational system since then.
In the nearly three decades that he has been driving trucks he has routinely won driver of the year awards as well as other frequent commendations for excellent performance in all job aspects while not a single time receiving a reprimand for uncivil or unconstructive conduct in any situation. His previous job experience before entering trucking in the 80s was a bit of construction work followed by quite a few years of dairy work; not places where he would have frequently encountered and worked along side better educated people that would have given him the opportunity to pick up on their habits and means of operating.
I believe that his example shows that it is not necessary to go through eighth grade to learn these skills; I suspect that rather than eighth grade imparting superior skill towards functioning in society, it is instead a filter for those students that our one-size-fits-all school system fails to accommodate that then disposes those students outside of the system without any recourse or additional assistance which sets them up for a failed and miserable life in many cases.
For what it's worth I have worked jobs between high school and college where I met people that graduated high school but lacked the ability to anything as slightly complex as the activities that you described. Eighth grade and beyond did not seem to have much effect in imparting those skills to them.