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How many jobs really require college?

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Re: How many jobs really require college?

#91

Post by nebabyte »

woodruffw wrote: post #81
overgard wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is like the definition of an ad-hominem attack. Your argument is basically "he believes some unpopular things so all his ideas should be discredited." I dont know this guy and I doubt I think the way he thinks, but the essay is the essay -- it should stand or fall on its own merits.

You're right that it's an ad hominem, as it rightly should be - the character and state of mind of author should be considered when judging their work. We might have an obligation to read charitably, but we shouldn't be obsequious towards ideas (or people) that are ontologically broken or fly in the face of basic humanism. This author falls firmly into that category, and a quick survey of their work will confirm that…

That line of "reasoning" is only possibly justifiable if you can come up with a specific way it discredits his argument - ending at "see he thinks X, clearly we shouldn't listen to anything else" is just burying your head in the sand.

Re: How many jobs really require college?

#93

Post by ThomPete »

wsxcde wrote: post #70
ThomPete wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You ironically couldn't be more wrong and you are looking at this the wrong way. A cleaning lady is going to be able to keep her job longer than a radiologist as the radiologist requires mostly the ability to understand visual patterns where as a cleaning lady requires general purpose AI. It's way harder to lift the rug, get in between the books etc. Furthermore you get it wrong. Specialization requires knowledge yes…

You're being biased by presentism. In an age where robots are cheap and ubiquitous, we won't still hire cleaning ladies (interesting assumption they're still ladies) just because they'll be able to clean under the rug. Instead, home furniture will change so that it becomes easier to clean for robots.

No I am not being biased by anything. I said that they will get replaced AFTER radiologist will which was the point here. Longer education does not secure your position.

Re: How many jobs really require college?

#94

Post by smoe »

kazagistar wrote: post #18
pen2l wrote: post #7

I think the author of this post is making the same mistake that a lot of other people (particularly smart folks) make whenever they are thinking about the ills of modern education system and what can be done to improve it. Like Peter Thiel and others, I don't think they understand how and why students are failing in classrooms today. Take for example the author's suggestions on how school systems can be improved: Cre…

Aren't apprenticeship contracts functionally slavery? You think free money will be abused, but this won't be?

Don't know how apprenticeships work in the US, but in Switzerland where they are very common (about two-thirds of youths coming out of mandatory school) for all sort of fields (carpenter, nurse, draftsman, business clerk, programmer, etc), they are paid and heavily regulated, since your are only 15-17 years old when you start.

In Switzerland an apprentice on average costs the company more than what they bring in value for the first two years, but make that loss up in the final two.

Re: How many jobs really require college?

#95

Post by pkaye »

gremlinsinc wrote: post #32
Apreche wrote: post #2

If your job doesn't require college, then pretty soon it won't require a human either. The more brain required the longer you have until a robot or computer can do it better.

I'm a web developer, self-taught, some college, but no degree. Teaching myself ML now, so someday I can code AI -- pretty sure I'll keep teaching myself into a career without college, until all jobs are obsolete and we live in a post-scarcity society.

Just curious so you are learning the statistics and linear algebra background yourself so you can learn ML?

Re: How many jobs really require college?

#96

Post by overgard »

woodruffw wrote: post #81
overgard wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is like the definition of an ad-hominem attack. Your argument is basically "he believes some unpopular things so all his ideas should be discredited." I dont know this guy and I doubt I think the way he thinks, but the essay is the essay -- it should stand or fall on its own merits.

You're right that it's an ad hominem, as it rightly should be - the character and state of mind of author should be considered when judging their work. We might have an obligation to read charitably, but we shouldn't be obsequious towards ideas (or people) that are ontologically broken or fly in the face of basic humanism. This author falls firmly into that category, and a quick survey of their work will confirm that…

I would counter that the reason we consider ad-hominem bad is because it enables lazy thinkers to avoid the topic at hand and redirect it to something thats a lot easier to criticize. Thats the path of sophistry.

Re: How many jobs really require college?

#97

Post by matwood »

brianwawok wrote: post #50
kazagistar wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't apprenticeship contracts functionally slavery? You think free money will be abused, but this won't be?

So I don't know about all fields, but I know about programming. Do you know how much value a high school type person has in writing computer programs for an actual software company? Something fairly negative. Say -$10 an hour or -$50 an hour, based on how much experienced person time they take up and how much damage they do. If you run a small profitable business, even if you could get high schoolers to work for free…

>Do you know how much value a high school type person has in writing computer programs for an actual software company? Something fairly negative. Say -$10 an hour or -$50 an hour, based on how much experienced person time they take up and how much damage they do.

I don't know. Motivated HS kids today could be pretty good employees. My first programming job happened when I was a sophomore in college, and code I wrote was going into production products.

Re: How many jobs really require college?

#98

Post by toehead2000 »

kazagistar wrote: post #78
brianwawok wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I don't know about all fields, but I know about programming. Do you know how much value a high school type person has in writing computer programs for an actual software company? Something fairly negative. Say -$10 an hour or -$50 an hour, based on how much experienced person time they take up and how much damage they do. If you run a small profitable business, even if you could get high schoolers to work for free…

It sucks for the big corps to not be able to contractually force labor out of workers who they have trained. But it sucks far far more if you are stuck in an abusive contract.

Yeah contracts suck in general. What if I sign a contract and then decide I don't like it? Contracts should be illegal.

Re: How many jobs really require college?

#100

Post by hatsunearu »

pen2l wrote: post #7

I think the author of this post is making the same mistake that a lot of other people (particularly smart folks) make whenever they are thinking about the ills of modern education system and what can be done to improve it. Like Peter Thiel and others, I don't think they understand how and why students are failing in classrooms today. Take for example the author's suggestions on how school systems can be improved: Cre…

It's weird, I'm closer to the opposite. I never get motivated unless it comes deep within myself--if I feel like something is worth my time, be it because to groom my GPA, because it's interesting material, I feel a drive to do it (which sometimes makes me unhappy because it's grueling work). The social interactions at school are great in its own right, but I feel like that bit is decoupled from my work.

You know one of those clicker games, like cookie clicker? It's hilariously dumb if you think about it--it's kind a parody of what a video game really is. You click, and then you get a reward, and you use that reward to do the click thing better, faster, and automated. Some people love it because they are really receptive to operant conditioning and self-motivated just to see that number rise (however stupid it may be), and some people feel like they need a deeper reason to play something like that. That was kind of my analogy for the whole shebang.

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