Live data from Hacker News

As New Zealand Courts Tech Talent, Isolation Becomes a Draw

nytimes.com

361–370 of 431 posts

Re: As New Zealand Courts Tech Talent, Isolation Becomes a Draw

#361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In 2014 I was making 141 NZD writing C++ at Weta Digital (I had colleagues breaking 150). They were mostly contract jobs renewed annually, but I didn't know of any tech people there who were not renewed.

Interesting. Is this C++ anyone could do, or were they wanting maths and physics qualifications? That salary doesn't sound far fetched for a contract though.

It was a mix. There were definitely MS/PhD level maths people, but also a lot of people writing more systems oriented code to deal with the metric tones of data that they generate, people writing code to specific APIs for software packages that they use, etc.

Re: As New Zealand Courts Tech Talent, Isolation Becomes a Draw

#362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

140,000+ NZD for permanent devs in Wellington? Doing what? From what I can tell that's management salary in Wellington.

In 2014 I was making 141 NZD writing C++ at Weta Digital (I had colleagues breaking 150). They were mostly contract jobs renewed annually, but I didn't know of any tech people there who were not renewed.

That's likely an exception being paid for out of deep Hollywood pockets

Re: As New Zealand Courts Tech Talent, Isolation Becomes a Draw

#363
post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you wont be looking out of your home or office window at them unless you can drop a million dollars on a house. You can in parts of Christchurch. The southern alps are visible from the university where I work (though they are a fair way off). House-wise, you're probably looking at at least NZ$500k for that view from within Christchurch, which does kind of suck.

That's not true - while not a Christchurch advocate, Sumner offers wonderful views within that price range.

Oh there are good views in lots of places in Christchurch, Wellington, Auckland, etc. I was specifically referring to mountains, as in the "landscape of the Lord of the Rings" the GP referred to.

Besides, Sumner doesn't seem very safe, earthquake-wise, which will be contributing to the price.

Re: As New Zealand Courts Tech Talent, Isolation Becomes a Draw

#364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The NZ government bending over for the US government was not exactly very popular with the locals. A different government may have had a stronger spine. You also forgot the part where Kim Dotcom is a convicted fraudster, who was making money through deliberate violation of copyright, is all tech talent like him? Oh, and then there was the time he tried to get involved in NZ politics. That was not superpopular.

The NZ government bending over for the US government was not exactly very popular with the locals. The NZ government still refuses to let US warships that may be nuclear powered into our ports, and thus has no free trade deal with the worlds largest economy. Instead we have a free trade deal with Red China, which is now colonising us.

The US announced their participation in the TPP in 2009, a free trade agreement encompassing trade between the US and New Zealand. The Obama administration had been very gung-ho about its ratification in the US, so I don't think the question of nuclear powered warships comes up much anymore.

I don't think you can squarely point to the New Zealand–China FTA for whichever interpretation of colonization you'd like – immigration laws were mostly unchanged by the FTA with the exception of short term work visas, and property purchases by Chinese investors is not an exclusively "countries who have negotiated free trade agreements with China" phenomenon (see Vancouver in Canada, Seattle in the US).

Re: As New Zealand Courts Tech Talent, Isolation Becomes a Draw

#365
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being out of work for a few months isn't career killing. There may be some correlation, but it's not causal - I know plenty of people who've chosen not to work for a few months that I'd hire in a heartbeat. They do generally work on interesting projects, though.

It's not the time off, but rather, how you fill that time off that I am arguing is career stunting. If you have to work on uninteresting, non-career aiding work for a few months to make ends meet, you aren't likely to be working on interesting projects during that time. e: changed killing to stunting, because I do believe that it is recoverable.

I don't think it's that dire, but I guess interviewing afterwards could be trickier. If you were still a good programmer after three months, I think you'd be just fine. I just took six months off to travel the world, I'm not worried.

Re: As New Zealand Courts Tech Talent, Isolation Becomes a Draw

#366
post #36
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't most tech guys be able to support a family working for any of the local web developers, app developers or IT departments of non tech companies that you find all over Florida, New Zealand and most of the Western world? In urban areas of Florida and New Zealand you will find these jobs everywhere within a 5 mile radius. Maybe not always so interesting or well paying as some jobs in IT corporations, but good to…

> Wouldn't most tech guys be able to support a family working for any of the local web developers, app developers or IT departments of non tech companies that you find all over Florida, New Zealand and most of the Western world? Probably, but doing menial tasks behind where the modern edge progresses in technologies, your skills would become obsolete in 5-10 years. You'd either need to proceed to a general managerial…

What I have found is that this is often made up for by the arbitrage opportunities!

Because traditional industries are so out of touch with the latest hipster trends, giving them just a little taste (calibrated to appear as bottom line-relevant as possible to the right stakeholders) can make you seem like the second coming of Jesus, get you massive raises and promotions, and make you essentially layoff proof. I remember I had a job in 2006 - where I was a low-grade operations nobody - and I prototyped something in client-side JS for an internal project. Overnight I became Master Sensei, and everyone in engineering (not my division) knew my name. They were mortified when I tendered my resignation.

It doesn't always work. Megacorps don't intrinsically care about new technologies for their own sake, and it is true that defending the value of engineering to a bunch of greying MBAs in financial services or retail can be demoralising, at times infuriating or heartbreaking. Sometimes this type of activity can be consigned to skunkworks that never get a hearing or see the light of day, whether for political reasons (you're infringing on the J2EE guys' turf) or because management isn't tech-savvy enough to understand the value.

But man, when it works, it works! I'm in telecom, and much of the industry - by the numbers, forget Twilio and WebRTC - operates according to soul-deadening customs that have changed little since the 80s and the advent of the micro-computer. Core routing tables and key provisioning databases are still distributed as giant spreadsheets and Access databases. Cable companies can be surprisingly low-tech, too.

I've seen what happens when one becomes their connection to spiffy, modern innovation techniques like regular expressions and Python ETL jobs. The threshold for mind-blowing Bushido is startlingly low in enterprise. That can really make you an A-player in their eyes.

Your main competition is going to be that these companies prefer to source such insights from giant professional services companies and consultancies, who can be similarly low-tech, but some of whom have realised there's enormous money to be made in opening large companies' eyes to 2003-era technology like Perl and Subversion. There's also the fact that big companies don't like the risk profile of depending on one guy or a small team to do advanced stuff. They'd rather spend millions of dollars to have it done mediocrely by Accenture or Deloitte, in the customarily obese enterprise fashion, skies darkened with "Linux resources" and the Sun eclipsed by UML diagrams and process maps.

The other main danger is, as you allude, falling behind because the threshold for being ahead of the curve is so low. If you show them screen scraping or write an internal portal in a modern JS framework, they'll think you're from the future. Then you get into an actual tech company job and realise you've become an entrenched maintenance specialist in some decade-old stuff.

Re: As New Zealand Courts Tech Talent, Isolation Becomes a Draw

#367

How bizarre. I specifically relocated from NZ to the U.S. because of the lack of job opportunities in the Tech industry. I'd been looking for a job for over 9 months in New Zealand. I flew into the U.S. to visit my dad and applied for some jobs and had an offer within two weeks. Not only is the cost of living cheaper here (where I'm located at in the U.S.), but my salary is much better off at about 30,000 higher than…

What was your salary in NZ?

My last salary was about 70,000 NZD, which is less than $49,000 USD. I now make $87,000 USD (about 124,000 NZD), and I've got a written agreement for a raise to $95,000 in about another six months (135,000 NZD). The most I ever made in NZ was one year where I worked two different contractor jobs at about 60 hours per week and I brought in maybe 80k NZD ($56,000 USD). I now make $31,000 USD more than that at just 40 hours of work per week.

Re: As New Zealand Courts Tech Talent, Isolation Becomes a Draw

#368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I think of NZ, I imagine South Pacific beaches, lush forests of emu and kiwi and other exotic animals, and the landscape of the Lord of the Rings film trilogy. What natural beauty does Tulsa have?

There are no emu here, you're thinking of Australia. And Kiwi are both endangered and nocturnal. We have, really, nothing exotic at all apart from Tui's (that are awesome), Kereru (a huge wood pigeon) and Kea's (that are bastards).

kea are endangered aren't they?

Smart parrots though.

Re: As New Zealand Courts Tech Talent, Isolation Becomes a Draw

#369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. I'm on 55k USD in the US, and my average (not marginal) income tax rate (including FICA/med, state and local taxes) is 32 %. For the sake of comparison that's including the employee health insurance contribution, which I wouldn't pay if I were in NZ. If you don't include that my average tax rate is more like 29%. In either case a marginal tax rate of 30% in a tax system as progressive as New Zealand's would res…

30% is the highest tax bracket, in NZ on the equivalent of USD 55k pa (NZ$77600 right now) you'd pay $17835 in tax, or around 23% marginal. There is the matter of 15% GST to consider, but it's not something you often think about and factors in to the cost of living comparisons.

Wow, 30 % is the top rate? That's incredible. Would have expected it to go up closer to 50 % for a country with the general attitudes I'd perceived NZ to have.

I guess it might be to entice skilled people not to leave?

Re: As New Zealand Courts Tech Talent, Isolation Becomes a Draw

#370
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> $50,000 in Fort Lauderdale is as good as $120,000 in the valley. Not really. The quality of life on just about any axis, from parks and recreation to culture to education in Ft. Lauderdale is just inferior. Also, $50k doesn't go as far as you think there. There are a number of day-to-day and intangible costs (e.g. commute) that are actually less expensive in the valley.

"Quality of life" is inferior on any axis? Fort Lauderdale is the Yatch Capital of the World, the intercostal are a billionaire playground. Name any activity on the water from recreation, fishing, diving, to bio research...SV isn't on the map. On the other extreme - absolutely free - I would take Fort Lauderdale Beach and the weather over anything SV has to offer. After all there was a move to totally relocate Hollyw…

>Name any activity on the water

Surfing. Significantly better in the bay area.

Post reply on HN