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As New Zealand Courts Tech Talent, Isolation Becomes a Draw

nytimes.com

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Re: As New Zealand Courts Tech Talent, Isolation Becomes a Draw

#181

Post by ryandrake »

cookiecaper wrote: post #151
ryandrake wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Others have also replied but yea: with all due respect to IT helpdesk support staff and Wordpress maintainers and the guy who does the web site for the local nail salon, there's no way any of that compares to a career in software. Living in a low cost of living area is nice but it's not worth that.

Those aren't the only jobs in low-cost areas. Almost every mid-size or larger company has an internal software group making real software, and every metropolitan area has at least several of these. Lots of that is on older "enterprise" stacks v. cool open-source or experimental stacks, but it's still a plenty legitimate career path, and you'd be surprised how modern a company that looks like a dinosaur at first glanc…

> Those aren't the only jobs in low-cost areas. Almost every mid-size or larger company has an internal software group making real software, and every metropolitan area has at least several of these.

Having one company in an area does not help. My original comment dealt with the risk of when that one company doesn't work out for whatever reason. If that's the only tech employer in the area, you're screwed.

Even if there are a few in the area, getting a tech job is not like getting a job at the local Starbucks. One could easily apply to all 20 companies in the area and not get anywhere. Ask me how I know. At least in the Bay Area, you could apply to 20 companies a week and not run out of potential opportunities.

Re: As New Zealand Courts Tech Talent, Isolation Becomes a Draw

#182

Post by zacmps »

TheAlchemist wrote: post #13

That's interesting ! I'm intending to make a move with my family in near future, and we actually went to visit the northern island for 15 days last month. The country is really beautiful, and there are not a lot of people around, so you can't help but feel blessed by the surrounding nature. The people are great, probably the nicest I've ever seen (as a whole). I've noted some cons though (not blocking for us thankful…

New Zealand is currently running gigabit fibre to 85%(?) if the country, for no instillation cost.

In a couple of years NZ will have one of the highest (if not the highest) average internet speeds in the world.

Re: As New Zealand Courts Tech Talent, Isolation Becomes a Draw

#183

Post by sitharus »

gravypod wrote: post #96

I don't think New Zealand's selling point will ever be isolation. To have isolation you need to have a place with very lax laws where people don't want to bother you. New Zealand is very beautiful and interesting but there are still many laws and many people who want to bother you. Maybe this is "isolation" in a previously unheard of, to me, sense where you just don't want to be a citizen of a major nation or somethi…

Remember that 30% is it for tax, other than the 15% GST built in to all purchases. There's no city or state taxes, no payroll tax, no additional costs for health insurance and no cost of compliance - as an employed individual you don't need an accountant to do your taxes.

Re: As New Zealand Courts Tech Talent, Isolation Becomes a Draw

#184

Post by craigds »

chadgeidel wrote: post #37
TheAlchemist wrote: post #13

That's interesting ! I'm intending to make a move with my family in near future, and we actually went to visit the northern island for 15 days last month. The country is really beautiful, and there are not a lot of people around, so you can't help but feel blessed by the surrounding nature. The people are great, probably the nicest I've ever seen (as a whole). I've noted some cons though (not blocking for us thankful…

The Internet connectivity issue was the big deal-breaker for me. Australian bloggers have been complaining about it since the beginning of the WWW. Apparently there's one provider and they don't care about anything beyond "email and casual browsing". I've heard that Australia and New Zealand share the same ISP and the same policies. This is going to be a huge hinderance for any tech enterprise. I'm glad to see @bspn…

Australian internet is leagues behind NZ internet. NZ reliably has fibre in most places in the cities, and a plan to get fibre to 80% of the population by 2020 (FTTB). This is in contrast to the botched Australian plan (search for NBN) which targets FTTN. In NZ there's also plenty of good, reliable fast public wifi (especially if you have a Spark mobile plan).

Re: As New Zealand Courts Tech Talent, Isolation Becomes a Draw

#185

Post by nebabyte »

geebee wrote: post #158

New Zealand does sound pretty incredible. A massive national park, the size of California, with only 5 million people, and very liveable and appealing cities. Here's the thing. Would New Zealand stay that way if it pursued a policy of large scale immigration, they way the US has? The US takes well over a million new immigrants into the country every year. 10 years of our immigration would triple the size of New Zeala…

> Here's the thing. Would New Zealand stay that way if it pursued a policy of large scale immigration, they way the US has?

Probably not. Anyone adopting the "give me your weary" immigration stance would by design attract those who could not "get in" elsewhere, so unless they had a stellar education system and benefits to help those people get up on their feet, they'd probably not do well (not saying the US does)

> I do wonder why the US, which takes over a million immigrants a year, takes so much heat for enforcing immigration policy, while New Zealand receives so much praise for being an ideal society

For the same reason some people still see reddit as having 'betrayed some principle' - it set itself 'apart' as living up to some purported principle (in the US' case, "anyone can come here and make it") which enforcement policies "seem" like they are against (even if they're implementing a means by which that ideal can be met).

Apparently, first impressions w.r.t. companies, countries, and other organizations that center on ideals last. Make sure you're honest and upfront about your ideals, or figure out a way to re-brand, or get ready to 'always be seen as' some kind of 'welcher'. ...shrug

Re: As New Zealand Courts Tech Talent, Isolation Becomes a Draw

#186

Post by eropple »

SmellTheGlove wrote: post #160
eropple wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a different viewpoint, I moved away from Maine after college, to Massachusetts, and wouldn't move back. The politics of the area are backwards and profoundly broken in the "boy, I hope you're a straight white male or things are gonna get rough " sort of way you don't expect from the general oasis of New England sanity, the drug issues in the places I grew up are rampant, and the public schools are being actively…

I'm in the Portland area, which I think helps. Occasionally we miss city life, so we head down to Boston, which is a pretty reasonable 90 minute drive. I don't think I could live too far north of Freeport or Brunswick, and I'm not very interested in living too far west of 95. Parts of this state are certainly backwards. Actually, the majority is if you go by land area, but I think we have a nice thing going in York a…

Portland's okay. I enjoy visiting for a few days here and there. But it's attached to a state that elected Paul LePage, which is...a problem.

Re: As New Zealand Courts Tech Talent, Isolation Becomes a Draw

#187

Post by nebabyte »

hamandcheese wrote: post #21
mattnewton wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that hiding from American politics?

Easy: don't watch the news.

You're still subject to the laws that get passed.

How 'bout that ISP spying, and those latest pushes against net neutrality. (But okay, at least you have cheap - for the US - rent) I'd love to get locked in to that as a small business.

> Easy: don't watch the news.

"The news" is not just followed as an emotional stimulant; your life in relation to "the news" does not begin and end with the television or computer screen. It's a harbinger of law and policy to come.

Re: As New Zealand Courts Tech Talent, Isolation Becomes a Draw

#188

Post by will_brown »

sidlls wrote: post #91
flexie wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't most tech guys be able to support a family working for any of the local web developers, app developers or IT departments of non tech companies that you find all over Florida, New Zealand and most of the Western world? In urban areas of Florida and New Zealand you will find these jobs everywhere within a 5 mile radius. Maybe not always so interesting or well paying as some jobs in IT corporations, but good to…

> $50,000 in Fort Lauderdale is as good as $120,000 in the valley. Not really. The quality of life on just about any axis, from parks and recreation to culture to education in Ft. Lauderdale is just inferior. Also, $50k doesn't go as far as you think there. There are a number of day-to-day and intangible costs (e.g. commute) that are actually less expensive in the valley.

"Quality of life" is inferior on any axis? Fort Lauderdale is the Yatch Capital of the World, the intercostal are a billionaire playground. Name any activity on the water from recreation, fishing, diving, to bio research...SV isn't on the map.

On the other extreme - absolutely free - I would take Fort Lauderdale Beach and the weather over anything SV has to offer. After all there was a move to totally relocate Hollywood movie industry from CA to South Florida. And parks? What measure does SV outperform? Everglades National Park is probably 4-5x larger than SV and it's in Fort Lauderdale's backyard.

Though South Florida doesn't get the tech press, we also have billion dollar startups. As far as schools, I went to a public high school (top 50 in the US) not even the best rated public school in my area, but my 4 brothers and I all have graduate degrees, fellow alumni include astronauts, countless professional athletes and even a tech founder by the name Jeff Bezos.

I won't touch culture, because it is much to loaded but there is no shortage of meuseums dedicated to arts and sciences. Come to Wynwood during Art Basel and you might leave thinking we have the most progressive city in the world artistically. Finally, I don't want to minimize the diversity of the SV demographics but it again doesn't compete with the diversity and actual cultural influence these various background have in South Florida.

Re: As New Zealand Courts Tech Talent, Isolation Becomes a Draw

#189

Post by antod »

geebee wrote: post #158

New Zealand does sound pretty incredible. A massive national park, the size of California, with only 5 million people, and very liveable and appealing cities. Here's the thing. Would New Zealand stay that way if it pursued a policy of large scale immigration, they way the US has? The US takes well over a million new immigrants into the country every year. 10 years of our immigration would triple the size of New Zeala…

>I mean, how about this last quote: “It’s boom time for the next 10 years,” Mr. Drury said. The more immigrants, the better. “We’ll take a lot. We’ll take hundreds.” Woah, not hundreds?

That was the CEO taking about his company not the country.

Re: As New Zealand Courts Tech Talent, Isolation Becomes a Draw

#190

Post by vacri »

geebee wrote: post #158

New Zealand does sound pretty incredible. A massive national park, the size of California, with only 5 million people, and very liveable and appealing cities. Here's the thing. Would New Zealand stay that way if it pursued a policy of large scale immigration, they way the US has? The US takes well over a million new immigrants into the country every year. 10 years of our immigration would triple the size of New Zeala…

> Here's the thing. Would New Zealand stay that way if it pursued a policy of large scale immigration, they way the US has?

Both NZ and Australia take in a far higher rate of immigrants than the US. You should change your question to "Imagine if the US took in as many immigrants as NZ".

NZ has a serious problem in that because it's easier for an NZ citizen to become Australian, a lot of immigrants use NZ as a 'stepping stone' citizenship - NZ spends resources on integrating the immigrants, and then they hop the ditch.

NZ couldn't take in the absolute numbers the US does, simply because of infrastructure. The US has an entire continent, full of roads, houses, and lots of wide flat arable land for agriculture, all of which has been built up over centuries. NZ has a pair of hilly medium-sized islands, one of which isn't great for large-scale habitation, and the country only has a little more than a century worth of infrastructure - and doesn't get the benefits of economies of scale that the US does.

In short, NZ gets the reputation it does because it consistently punches above its weight.

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