Filing Taxes in Japan Is a Breeze. Why Not in the US? • Hacker News Board

Re: Filing Taxes in Japan Is a Breeze. Why Not in the US?

#161

Post by ghaff » Fri, Apr 14, 2017, 5:35 PM UTC

s73ver wrote: post #132

csomar wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah I was not too convinced when I read the article. The government can easily figure out the taxes for your wage (which your employer did actually figure out) but they can't figure out the taxes on your real estate revenue, and maybe other activities (traded cryptocurrency? freelanced on the side? Airbnb"ing" some of your estate)

So you have a good start, one which is enough for the vast majority of people. Those that do have those things have to do a little extra work. I'm not seeing an argument against doing this.

There are two simpler IRS forms (1040EZ and 1040A) for people with simpler tax situations which are used by something like 40% of filers. People with simple tax situations really just need to transfer a few numbers to a form and send it in. I guess the process could be even simpler but it's already pretty straightforward if your income streams and deductions are simple.

Re: Filing Taxes in Japan Is a Breeze. Why Not in the US?

#162

Post by Symbiote » Fri, Apr 14, 2017, 5:36 PM UTC

mstade wrote: post #81

reallydontask wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HRMC will actually tell if your employer(s) have screwed up and you're due a refund. I imagine that they will also tell you if you need pay more for the same reason, but that's never happened to me.

They might tell, and if they do it's probably not something that's going to happen swiftly. I took a job with an employer in London who didn't get my taxes right, but I was none the wiser of course. A few months in, my tax increased by a significant amount from one paycheck to the next, and this tipped me off to something being wrong. I talked with my employer who looked in to it, but this kept on being the same for…

You have four years to claim back overpaid tax from HMRC.

For most employed people, this calculator should be very close to correct: https://listentotaxman.com/

Re: Filing Taxes in Japan Is a Breeze. Why Not in the US?

#163

Post by cmurf » Fri, Apr 14, 2017, 5:37 PM UTC

blizkreeg wrote: post #141

feld wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$3k??! How is that possible? I get personal and business taxes done for $200

combined $200?? Who's your tax guy? :) I'm being quoted $1K+ for my Corporation taxes.

1120S? $1500 is a reasonable price once you accept the world of asinine information returns costing this much to prepare and file.

For a simple schedule C, $200 is suspiciously cheap but I hear this all the time, even from people with rental property and I'm like - ok whatever good luck with that. If you go to H&R Block for a simple schedule C, of course they do the whole return and it's a charge per return. I think it's about $500-$600 for a 1040 that also includes A, B, C, D, E and SE, last time I had it done. These days I'm just using TurboTax with numbers plugged in from accounting software.

Re: Filing Taxes in Japan Is a Breeze. Why Not in the US?

#164

Post by strictnein » Fri, Apr 14, 2017, 5:38 PM UTC

hyperliner wrote: post #119

US tax payer here. I'm going to stay away from discussing TurboTax from a political perspective. However, I have used TurboTax since the first year I had income. It's super easy. As my income has gotten complex over time (from simple, one employer tax return to multiple employers in a same year, real estate, investments, and office expenses), I have found TurboTax worth the $90 or $100 it costs to purchase the softwa…

I've had the same experience. I just collect the various forms I get mailed in a little bin next to my computer, and when I do my taxes it takes two hours max. And that's with a fair amount of deductions, IRA/retirement contributions, and a side consulting gig. Usually spend $100-$150 with them based on my needs that year, including the audit protection.

Re: Filing Taxes in Japan Is a Breeze. Why Not in the US?

#165

Post by jschulenklopper » Fri, Apr 14, 2017, 5:42 PM UTC

jschulenklopper wrote: post #11

I don't know when the slogan of the Dutch tax authority, "We can’t make paying taxes pleasant, but at least we can make it simple" was introduced, but in my view it has been supported in three different ways: 1) a simplification of the tax rules - mainly by reducing the number of exceptions and tax deduction rules, 2) filing the tax forms digitally - they started with desktop applications, and now the main focus is o…

> I don't know when the slogan of the Dutch tax authority, [...] was introduced,

Just found out: according to their own account, it's their slogan for twenty years already. In ads it seems to be introduced in 2007.

Re: Filing Taxes in Japan Is a Breeze. Why Not in the US?

#166

Post by strictnein » Fri, Apr 14, 2017, 5:42 PM UTC

oakesm9 wrote: post #20

dagenleg wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you want to word it like that? Let's not call it 'stop' but rather 'financially discourage'.

I meant is it really a free market when Intuit needs to pay off the government through lobbying to stop them making tax filing simpler so they can keep their market.

The government made taxes complex to begin with.

Pretending like the only thing stopping them is Intuit is pretty disingenuous. All the handouts to various groups (homeowners, parents, college grads, etc) would go away under a simpler system. You're going to be the congressman to tell home owners in your district, you know, the ones who vote frequently and donate money to campaigns, that they no longer get to deduct their mortgage interest and property taxes? Very, very doubtful.

Re: Filing Taxes in Japan Is a Breeze. Why Not in the US?

#167

Post by krzyk » Fri, Apr 14, 2017, 5:44 PM UTC

chimeracoder wrote: post #109

jacquesm wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I was particularly surprised how you have to pay many different fees which in Finland would have been bundled together. Namely having separate bills coming on varying payment schedules for income tax, municipal tax, entrepreneur tax (5%) and health insurance. This seems inefficient and confusing to me. That's how it is in most countries because they're all different entities collecting.

> That's how it is in most countries because they're all different entities collecting. Exactly. I pay city, state, and federal income tax in the US. My city is about 1.5 times the population of Finland, and that's only one of the three different forms of income tax I have to pay. At least that goes through the state, so it's only two departments, but that's again separate from the federal IRS. And that's just income…

Also, I don't think that the size of the country (I think you mean the population, Finland has larger area than Japan), but the amount of bureaucracy given state likes and population is able to handle.

Actually the more population the harder it is keep the different taxes, it would be easier to have a single one and distribute it accordingly from the top.

Re: Filing Taxes in Japan Is a Breeze. Why Not in the US?

#168

Post by alkonaut » Fri, Apr 14, 2017, 5:50 PM UTC

I file mine by ticking a checkbox and signing with the normal national digital id app. This is Sweden.

I do not understand how the hell this is still so complicated in the US. Just change it?

My impression of politics and authorities is "if something is obviously broken then it's already worked on and probably fixed within a year or two".

The reason crap isn't fixed in the US? Beats me - but I'll guess: because a lot of people don't want it fixed. And those people contribute money to politics. You have a political system where money can be used to campaign for political office. Fix that.

Re: Filing Taxes in Japan Is a Breeze. Why Not in the US?

#169

Post by Angostura » Fri, Apr 14, 2017, 5:50 PM UTC

patio11 wrote: post #50

The NTA (National Tax Authority, cited as the Kokuzeicho in the article) doesn't figure out your taxes for you. Your employer does, as one of the (many!) ways in which they exercise paternalistic control of your life. If you do not have an employer, you get to go through a process which is almost exactly as fun as it is in the US, modulo a modestly competent online filing application. I spent $3k this year on account…

In the U.K. If you are employed, your tax is worked out for your through the Pay as You Earn system. If you are self employed you fill in the rather good self-assessment form online and your tax is calculated for you.

Re: Filing Taxes in Japan Is a Breeze. Why Not in the US?

#170

Post by alkonaut » Fri, Apr 14, 2017, 5:54 PM UTC

strictnein wrote: post #159

The reason American taxes are more complex is that both parties use the income tax system for social engineering. They want to encourage things like home ownership, attending college, having kids, donating to charity, etc, so they let you deduct related costs.

I have tons of deductions too, but the tax authority just assumes I want to do them (interest rate, pension savings, a deduction for home repair ...) so they are filled in so I just accept them. If there is a deduction the trick is to e sure the burden of reporting is placed on the receiver, so charities report donations etc. Because there are fewer charities than donors, that makes the total burden smaller.

Taxes are always social engineering.