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Filing Taxes in Japan Is a Breeze. Why Not in the US?

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Re: Filing Taxes in Japan Is a Breeze. Why Not in the US?

#81
post #26

I'm in the UK. If you work as a regular employee, your tax gets automatically deducted and noted in your payslip. Each year you get a form posted out and if you disagree with the amount (I don't know anyone who ever has) you can contact HMRC to sort out the difference. If you work as a contractor/self employed, you have to fill in a self assessment form. I personally don't need to do one, but my partner did, and it t…

HRMC will actually tell if your employer(s) have screwed up and you're due a refund. I imagine that they will also tell you if you need pay more for the same reason, but that's never happened to me.

They might tell, and if they do it's probably not something that's going to happen swiftly.

I took a job with an employer in London who didn't get my taxes right, but I was none the wiser of course. A few months in, my tax increased by a significant amount from one paycheck to the next, and this tipped me off to something being wrong. I talked with my employer who looked in to it, but this kept on being the same for about three months. At this point, I'd been on the job for maybe 7 months or so. Finally I'm told I have to sort this out with HMRC myself, so I called them. They were very helpful and pleasant to deal with, and the person on the other end of the phone call very briefly looked over my account and determined I've been overpaying every single month – by a lot. They noted as well that HMRC had indeed changed my tax code to an "emergency rate" or some such about three months prior to the call, but failed to note the wrong tax code that was already there in the first place. This person did sort it all out however, and a couple of weeks later I got a check in the mail for over £6000.

It did finally work out in the end, but I'm not sure I would've noticed if they hadn't hiked my tax so significantly, and I don't know what would've happened then since apparently they hadn't registered the error either.

Moral of the story: HMRC are there to help, but you may want to be proactive and call them if you think anything might be wrong, or you want to double check something. Their phone service is very helpful, and usually not too busy.

Re: Filing Taxes in Japan Is a Breeze. Why Not in the US?

#82
post #18

In Romania if you don't have any income except for your salary, you don't have to do anything. Yes, there are no tax exemptions or deductions, but on the other hand life is simple. How often are those exemptions or deductions worth it, especially when compared to the potential complexity and additional cost of a byzantine tax system?

> there are no tax exemptions or deductions, but on the other hand life is simple

There is talk nowadays about changing this and bringing in deductions, just like in the US.

Re: Filing Taxes in Japan Is a Breeze. Why Not in the US?

#83
post #62
post #50

The NTA (National Tax Authority, cited as the Kokuzeicho in the article) doesn't figure out your taxes for you. Your employer does, as one of the (many!) ways in which they exercise paternalistic control of your life. If you do not have an employer, you get to go through a process which is almost exactly as fun as it is in the US, modulo a modestly competent online filing application. I spent $3k this year on account…

$3k??! How is that possible? I get personal and business taxes done for $200

I'm with you here. I never spent more than $600 having a few W2s, some 1099s, the usual interest-bearing accounts, a C corp and a schedule C.

Granted, I could have spent a LOT more if I didn't keep track of everything (i.e. needing a bookkeeping service too). Maybe that's where the additional expense came in.

Re: Filing Taxes in Japan Is a Breeze. Why Not in the US?

#84
This is short and worth a listen, a Stanford Professor spent a year or so of his life piloting a program in California called "Ready Return", where the government filled out your taxes for you. Ultimately it was shot down by Intuit and H&R Block's lobbyists however.

http://www.npr.org/2017/03/29/521954033/stanford-professor-l...

Re: Filing Taxes in Japan Is a Breeze. Why Not in the US?

#85

Overlooked in this article and comments is the influence of one man -- Grover Norquist. He runs an extremely influential organization that administers a sort of purity pledge that, for most Republican candidates for Congress, is necessary to sign in order to avoid being primaried. He has decided that making taxes easier to do would make people more okay with tax increases, and so he has decreed that support for the k…

Norquist started Americans for Tax Reform (ATR) is a politically conservative U.S. taxpayer advocacy group whose stated goal is "a system in which taxes are simpler, flatter, more visible, and lower than they are today." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americans_for_Tax_Reform Doesn't sound like you are describing Norquist's organization they way they do in their mission statement. Do you have any references?

https://www.propublica.org/article/how-the-maker-of-turbotax...

> In 2005, Norquist testified before the President's Advisory Panel on Federal Tax Reform arguing against return-free filing. The next year, Norquist and others wrote in a letter to President Bush that getting an official-looking "bill" from the IRS could be "extremely intimidating, particularly for seniors, low-income and non-English speaking citizens."

Re: Filing Taxes in Japan Is a Breeze. Why Not in the US?

#86
What I find truly amazing about the tax situation here in the US is the sheer unpredictability. You the employee are burdened with choosing the right formula to deduct taxes from your paychecks, but there is no ironclad way to ensure that you deduct only the exact right amount—or to check whether you've been deducting enough. For most people, tax time comes and either they get a bunch of money back (they deducted too much), or they owe a bunch of money (they deducted too little). I'd rather just have exactly the right amount deducted.

Some people choose to not deduct any, and put a guesstimate of what their tax bill will be into savings, so that they can make some tiny amount of interest on it over the course of the year, then when tax time comes, pay just exactly what's owed. But this feels like playing with fire to me.

Re: Filing Taxes in Japan Is a Breeze. Why Not in the US?

#87

I've taken to referring to the time that I spend filling out US Government tax forms as the "Norquist tax". After all, it's hours of my time which I have to spend giving work to the government. Maybe if we all start calling it that, Americans for Tax Reform will realize that they are causing more harm than good by lobbying against a more efficient filing system. They may think that having us spend a bunch of time doi…

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Re: Filing Taxes in Japan Is a Breeze. Why Not in the US?

#88

Overlooked in this article and comments is the influence of one man -- Grover Norquist. He runs an extremely influential organization that administers a sort of purity pledge that, for most Republican candidates for Congress, is necessary to sign in order to avoid being primaried. He has decided that making taxes easier to do would make people more okay with tax increases, and so he has decreed that support for the k…

> He has decided that making taxes easier to do would make people more okay with tax increases ...

I'm sympathetic to this point of view -- in theory, bearing the pain of taxation, the taxpayers will be amenable to solutions to simplify the tax code to make that pain lessen.

I think, though, at this point, we can say that this has empirically failed. Ironically enough, TurboTax and its ilk have rendered this part almost moot -- the government can keep increasing the tax code complexity, and the software will gloss over the difficulties. Small, gradual simplifications to the tax code will have absolutely no effect, since people will still just use electronic systems to assist them.

In addition, the payroll tax withholding is probably responsible for the remainder -- it's hard to get clear visibility into how much you're actually paying. I only just did my taxes, and I could tell you what my refund was, but I couldn't tell you what I actually paid in taxes offhand.

Re: Filing Taxes in Japan Is a Breeze. Why Not in the US?

#89
post #38

Belgium is interesting. The forms are really complicated, but luckily largely prefilled forms for most (salary and pension income, mortgage related deductions, ...). Apart from the complexity, the problem here is the extremely slow return of what the government owes you. For 2016 income: * filing between 20170426 - 20170630 * final calculation by post ~20171101 - ~20180401 * return of overpaid amount ~20180101 - ~201…

In Sweden you used to earn interest on money in your tax account, but I think the current government removed that this year so now it's a free loan to the government.

In some ways, the tax account was a better place to put money than a bank account. There have been periods where the interest on the tax account was competitive compared to banks, so some people would pay a years worth of taxes up front, and come tax season reap the benefits in terms of higher returns. Since they'd already paid all their dues, they'd pay nothing each month and the tax man would just reconcile things monthly as the tax comes due.

This isn't as palatable today when there's no interest, but I know some people still do it because it means their take home pay each month is "higher" in the sense that taxes aren't deducted, because they've already been paid. I've considered doing it, since while it makes no difference in the amount I pay, it means I have more cash in hand at the end of each month, rather than having amortize the tax cost over the year. Obviously this only works if you put away that money elsewhere somehow, taxes still have to be paid after all.

This also reminds me of a trick a buddy once pulled in the U.K. He paid all his taxes to the wrong account, but it was still in the hands of HMRC. Then when the tax man came knocking, he just showed his payment receipts and HMRC noted the error, fixed it up and apologized for he inconvenience. As well, he'd be paid back interest earned on this money, because the account he paid into had a higher interest than the one he should've paid to, which may have had no interest – I don't quite recall. I don't know if he still does this, but he did it by mistake one year, saw the benefits and figured it wasn't illegal so he just kept doing it. If there's anyone here that knows what I'm talking about I'd love to hear you thoughts!

Re: Filing Taxes in Japan Is a Breeze. Why Not in the US?

#90
post #4

This years it took me about three minutes: log in, scan throug the numbers, sign to accept. Then i went for a coffee. That how we do it in Sweden.

It took me about 10 minutes here in the US. Log into Turbo Tax, have it pull my last year's information, update the income fields and click through a wizard.

It cost 30$, and I can see how you could argue the fact I paid a private company for a convience other countries get from their government for free is sad, but I'll take it since my quality of life would drop significantly at a comparable salary in Sweden due to the amount of taxation vs the ease of taxation. Relatives in Norway have expressed similar sentiments in reverse though, so I guess the grass is always greener on the other side?

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