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United passenger suffers concussion, broken nose – lawyer

reuters.com

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Re: United passenger suffers concussion, broken nose – lawyer

#21

Post by qubex »

geofft wrote: post #11
notburnt wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope he settles, quickly and with a massive payout from United. I hope he laughs all the way to the bank. That might make it more probable, as compared to a protracted legal battle that just drops out of sight, that a random person will challenge United when put under the same circumstances. The real culprit here are the LEOs. They had no business getting involved. And, even less business using force. It's another…

Without defending the actions of the LEO, I'd note that in all probability, they were called in with just "We have a passenger who's been told to leave and is refusing to leave," and the implicit context of an unruly passenger instead of just one who refused to volunteer. I wonder if that exposes United to the same vague class of liability as if they had SWATted him - they called the police in a way where they should…

"Refused to volunteer" is such a wonderfully euphemistic turn of phrase.

Re: United passenger suffers concussion, broken nose – lawyer

#22

Post by EliRivers »

dragontamer wrote: post #9
ams6110 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She was creating a public disturbance, which is most likely a violation of the law. In the case of the United passenger, he was disturbing nobody until after they tried to force him to leave.

If its captain's orders however, then the captain of the airplane should have every right to remove a passenger.

Why should the captain have every right to remove a passenger? Should that include the right to remove a passenger because the passenger is Jewish? How about because the captain wants that seat for a set of golf clubs? That's what you said, and I disagree. The captain isn't God and aircrew are constrained by laws just like everyone else, no matter what the airlines would like us to think.

Re: United passenger suffers concussion, broken nose – lawyer

#23

Post by bigtimeidiot »

abalashov wrote: post #19
chillacy wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ... suffered a significant concussion, a broken nose and lost two front teeth in the incident, and he will need to undergo reconstructive surgery, Demetrio said. I can't contemplate the amount of money I'd have to get to make me willing to violently lose my teeth. He's a doctor too, so he's probably already making enough money.

> He's a doctor too, so he's probably already making enough money. Why do you assume that? I get the reason for the stereotype that doctors are well-remunerated, but, real talk, the compensation varies immensely, especially for nonspecialist solo/family practitioners. They bill what strikes the rest of us as a lot, but also face very high expenses, particularly as they relate to liaising with insurance and beating cl…

>Why do you assume that?

I assume the OP means he's probably doing well enough to not want his teeth kicked in for a payday. Like most of us here.

Re: United passenger suffers concussion, broken nose – lawyer

#24

Post by bigtimeidiot »

wapz wrote: post #6
beagle3 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They called police in to solve a civil dispute (the contract DOES allow them to make him to leave, and it's an enforceable contract-of-adhesion) which is afaik illegal. They could have called the FBI (or perhaps some other federal police force) because the passenger violated the federal requirement to obey aircrew. But they didn't

So I don't know how much you know the law, but I worked at a public swimming pool (run by the city) and we had a patron that was screaming at everyone and refused to leave (she was in the water). We called the police and they told the lady if she didn't get out they'd jump in and remove her by force. She got out and left. Are the circumstances that different in this case if the lady refused to get out and was forced…

>We called the police and they told the lady if she didn't get out they'd jump in and remove her by force.

I bet if they knocked her unconscious and dragged her from the pool, they'd be in trouble too. At least I hope so.

Isn't the whole point of police training to learn to deal with these situations safely and as peacefully as possible? If you can just shoot or punch everyone who's causing a disturbance, what do you need any training for?

Re: United passenger suffers concussion, broken nose – lawyer

#25

Post by abalashov »

bigtimeidiot wrote: post #23
abalashov wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He's a doctor too, so he's probably already making enough money. Why do you assume that? I get the reason for the stereotype that doctors are well-remunerated, but, real talk, the compensation varies immensely, especially for nonspecialist solo/family practitioners. They bill what strikes the rest of us as a lot, but also face very high expenses, particularly as they relate to liaising with insurance and beating cl…

> Why do you assume that? I assume the OP means he's probably doing well enough to not want his teeth kicked in for a payday. Like most of us here.

I don't know. I'd take it, and I probably do no worse than the average HN poster. :-) It'll get you out of having to deal with NPM left-pad for a while!

Re: United passenger suffers concussion, broken nose – lawyer

#26

Post by joezydeco »

notburnt wrote: post #3
mtgx wrote: post #2

I hope he doesn't settle.

I hope he settles, quickly and with a massive payout from United. I hope he laughs all the way to the bank. That might make it more probable, as compared to a protracted legal battle that just drops out of sight, that a random person will challenge United when put under the same circumstances. The real culprit here are the LEOs. They had no business getting involved. And, even less business using force. It's another…

The officers involved in this case are not Chicago Police. They are from the Chicago Department of Aviation. They cannot make arrests (they hold offenders until CPD is summoned). They are also unarmed.

http://www.chicagomag.com/city-life/April-2017/3-Things-to-K...

Re: United passenger suffers concussion, broken nose – lawyer

#28

Post by beagle3 »

wapz wrote: post #6
beagle3 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They called police in to solve a civil dispute (the contract DOES allow them to make him to leave, and it's an enforceable contract-of-adhesion) which is afaik illegal. They could have called the FBI (or perhaps some other federal police force) because the passenger violated the federal requirement to obey aircrew. But they didn't

So I don't know how much you know the law, but I worked at a public swimming pool (run by the city) and we had a patron that was screaming at everyone and refused to leave (she was in the water). We called the police and they told the lady if she didn't get out they'd jump in and remove her by force. She got out and left. Are the circumstances that different in this case if the lady refused to get out and was forced…

I do not know Chicago Law, but he likely didn't violate it. He might have violated federal law, but that enforcement has to be done differently afaik. Chicago Police was almost surely in the wrong, and United was in the wrong for calling them.

While one (especially United) might expect this to make no difference, the letter of the law is what should have been followed in this case.

Police often tend to make up nonexistent laws as they go. Those imiganiry laws might even sometimes make sense. But "with great power comes great responsibility" and that responsibility is to only uphold the laws on the books.

Re: United passenger suffers concussion, broken nose – lawyer

#29

Post by beagle3 »

EliRivers wrote: post #22
dragontamer wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If its captain's orders however, then the captain of the airplane should have every right to remove a passenger.

Why should the captain have every right to remove a passenger? Should that include the right to remove a passenger because the passenger is Jewish? How about because the captain wants that seat for a set of golf clubs? That's what you said, and I disagree. The captain isn't God and aircrew are constrained by laws just like everyone else, no matter what the airlines would like us to think.

The captain has every right to remove a passenger because, he is not supposed to fly unless he is feeling safe to fly, he mustn't, and it is assumed that letting 200 passengers fly safely is more important than letting one passenger remain "innocent until proven guilty".

That said, the captain's decision does not make him immune to lawsuits, disciplinary action, etc. but on his plane, especially while flying, temporarily he IS god.

Re: United passenger suffers concussion, broken nose – lawyer

#30

Post by bobbington »

man I can't understand why this guy just didn't get off the plane. Was it worth losing two teeth? You can always get a new ticket, but teeth are irreplaceable.

Of course United handled it wrong, should have just given out more miles and somebody else would have given up a seat.

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