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Remove United from your flight results

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Re: Remove United from your flight results

#281

Post by Nition »

Mithaldu wrote: post #27
sitepodmatt wrote: post #10

United screwed up by not having a decent incentive system in place to avoid deplaning people. People have presented many options, including taking a ballpark figure on checkin, or whilst on the airplance a speaker announcement anyone to travel later for $800, wait a minute, $1000, $1200, okay great thanks folks.. That was extremely badly handled and shocking that no process was in place for this - as last minute crew…

United acted illegally from the very get-go. Via https://np.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/64m8lg/why_is_... and more: > Lawyer here. This myth that passengers don't have rights needs to go away, ASAP. You are dead wrong when saying that United legally kicked him off the plane. > 1. First of all, it's airline spin to call this an overbooking. The statutory provision granting them the ability to deny boarding is a…

Original source for that comment is user NegativeFeedback here: http://disq.us/p/1hqpe1x

Re: Remove United from your flight results

#282

Post by Nition »

colmvp wrote: post #49
parent5446 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're really citing a Reddit comment that links to an article comment on ThePointsGuy as a serious source of legal opinion?

Skeptics should read the NakedCapitalism post ( http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2017/04/united-passenger-remo... ) which not only brings up the Reddit post but also includes references from the FAA, CFR, and United's Contract of Carriage.

I just want to note that the Reddit post itself is originally from here: http://disq.us/p/1hqpe1x

Re: Remove United from your flight results

#283

Post by zzrg »

chrisbennet wrote: post #275
soreasan wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure? Most of the articles I've read indicated that the cap was UP TO 400% of the ticket price with a maximum of $1,350 which seems to indicate that the cap is a maximum. Although I will say if the airline offered cash instead of vouchers I'm sure more people would have volunteered.

"DOT's denied boarding regulation spells out the airlines' minimum obligation to people they bump involuntarily." https://www.transportation.gov/airconsumer/fly-rights

"If the airline arranges substitute transportation that is scheduled to arrive at your destination between one and two hours after your original arrival time (between one and four hours on international flights), the airline must pay you an amount equal to 200% of your one-way fare to your final destination that day, with a $675 maximum."

It certainly looks like they are specifying a maximum compensation for the relevant situation here.

But suppose it were entirely up to United. Whenever I've asked people what United should have done instead, "offer more money!" is really the only response I've gotten. Even if the amount were much higher, there could still be scenarios in which people would refuse it for whatever reason. And even if it were entirely up to United, that seems like very minor mistake, if you could call it that. And certainly nothing that should cause anything resembling "moral outrage." Particularly when their flight bump compensation is in line with all other major airlines.

Re: Remove United from your flight results

#284

Post by phil21 »

nyolfen wrote: post #209
vinay427 wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Between the two clauses I honestly can't tell if you're complimenting or criticizing the airline. In any case, I love the no-hassles baggage policy (checking in bags is far more comfortable assuming they don't get misplaced) and seat selection (especially when traveling alone). The easy to understand frequent flyer program and relatively friendly staff help as well.

a personal anecdote about SW and lost bags -- they put my and my mother's luggage on the wrong flight once a few years ago, and not only did they give us both $250 in credit, they also had a courier drive the bags to her home (an hour from the airport) the next morning. i was very pleasantly surprised.

Every airline will drive your bags the next morning (or whenever it is they finally arrive and they find them) - they are legally required to.

I'm far more impressed when my bags catch up with me in some remote location in the middle of the third world you have to give directions by people and landmark :) But so far they've gotten them to me without fail.

Re: Remove United from your flight results

#285

Post by avs733 »

smokeyj wrote: post #276
avs733 wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow did I miss something. Anyone care to describe the deleted comment with a little more clarity?

Sarcastically said someone should be swatted so they know what it's like. Clearly not the most elegant argument.

ah, well I am glad to not be swatted but props for the jarring rhetorical point.

Re: Remove United from your flight results

#286

Post by otempomores »

joezydeco wrote: post #150
jedharris wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The well-informed discussion on Naked Capital ( http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2017/04/united-passenger-remo... ) strongly supports the claim that the removal was illegal. It also provides interesting evidence that the decisions were traceable to United's attempt to reduce costs by using third party contractors and affiliates (the flight was operated by Republic, an affiliate). This quote is telling: "When I was a ou…

This is the best summary of the issue I have seen to date, and really gets to the root of United's situation. Especially this quote: "I really don’t think the upper management at United has any clue about the nuts and bolts, day to day, inner workings of the company. Post-merger United is too big to fail, too big to manage and far too Balkanized to govern. I fully expect the ugliness to continue at United."

'Wenn das der Führer wüsste' falacy detected. The CEOs and shareholders know.. Or made it theire job to be not reached by that knowledge. Why be outraged over VW and downtalk this?

Re: Remove United from your flight results

#287

Post by belovedeagle »

donald123 wrote: post #256
paulddraper wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that what happened?

No, denied boarding means they won't let you board in the first place. In this case, he already sit in his seat.

While I suspect you're correct in this instance, that's not actually the point I was making. A lot of people have been going around the past few days saying, "I accepted a $20 voucher for my cancelled flight; was that illegal and they should have paid cash?!?!" People seem to have no notion of voluntary exchange.

Re: Remove United from your flight results

#288

Post by chrisbennet »

zzrg wrote: post #283
chrisbennet wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"DOT's denied boarding regulation spells out the airlines' minimum obligation to people they bump involuntarily." https://www.transportation.gov/airconsumer/fly-rights

"If the airline arranges substitute transportation that is scheduled to arrive at your destination between one and two hours after your original arrival time (between one and four hours on international flights), the airline must pay you an amount equal to 200% of your one-way fare to your final destination that day, with a $675 maximum." It certainly looks like they are specifying a maximum compensation for the rele…

The regulation caps what the airlines must pay, not what they can pay.

The moral, outrage isn't because United made a mistake. The moral outrage is because, rather than pay $800 more to correct their mistake, they resorted to force.

The moral outrage was compounded by the president of United not delivering a sincere apology. "I'm sorry your dog was run over." isn't the same as "I'm sorry I ran over your dog."

There seems to be a case to be made that United wasn't even in the right contractually. It certainly struck many people that way at a gut level i.e. when you take delivery of a product or service you don't expect the seller to come back later and take it back. This also contributed to the moral outrage.

Re: Remove United from your flight results

#289

Post by wklauss »

wapz wrote: post #93
wklauss wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can use United vouchers online. I have volunteered a couple of times in the past and used them without any problem on United's website. You can also use them for multiple trips if the amount on the voucher is not exhausted. They do expire after a year, though, that is correct.

Did they issue you multiple $50 vouchers like the other person said? I fly mostly from SFO to HND (Japan) and it would be worthless if I only got $50 off a flight.

Always an electronic voucher with the full amount offered. My last one was a 600$ voucher and I paid a full round trip to Europe with it.

Re: Remove United from your flight results

#290

Post by wklauss »

mdorazio wrote: post #161
wklauss wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can use United vouchers online. I have volunteered a couple of times in the past and used them without any problem on United's website. You can also use them for multiple trips if the amount on the voucher is not exhausted. They do expire after a year, though, that is correct.

Did they change this recently? A few years ago when I was flying all the time, you had to use the vouchers at an actual ticket counter to redeem them. It was ridiculous.

Maybe, but the first one I got was 5 or 6 years ago and was already an electronic voucher redeemable in the website.
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