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Monsanto Weed Killer Roundup Faces New Doubts on Safety in Unsealed Documents

nytimes.com

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Re: Monsanto Weed Killer Roundup Faces New Doubts on Safety in Unsealed Documents

#241

Post by shriphani »

tptacek wrote: post #174
shriphani wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As Nicholas Taleb put it - stuff that is natural is time-tested. Food we've grown + consumed has a multi-millennium history of being safe to consume. The burden of proof is on the synthetic. And health issues can materialize with a time gap of a decade or so - essentially you can ruin a couple of generations with a mistake you didn't catch in time. It doesn't help when those who have to prove their validity have to r…

This is a fallacy. All sorts of things are time-tested, in some cases over a millennium, and turn out to be carcinogenic: lutefisk, for instance, or the scalding hot tea Iranians drink.

I'm talking conditional probabilities here. Conditioned on the natural, our track record isn't bad. Conditioned on synthetic substances, just in the last century we have thalidomide, high-fructose corn syrup and this wonderful collection: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Withdrawn_drugs

Re: Monsanto Weed Killer Roundup Faces New Doubts on Safety in Unsealed Documents

#242

Post by abandonliberty »

alevskaya wrote: post #61
abandonliberty wrote: post #32

I've been researching this. 1. Glyphosate (roundup) use is two orders of magnitude higher than originally approved. 2. Due to the emergence of glyphosate-resistant weeds, the dosage has been increased substantially. 3. It is now also usually combined with other compounds to increase effectiveness, which affects how it breaks down and affects both the food and environment. 4. It is now also used for 'green burndown'.…

There are many conflicts of interest in the world - organic farming is an industry too. e.g. at least one of those 14 experts is an active member of the organic industry and has long had a beef with the GMO industry: https://www.geneticliteracyproject.org/glp-facts/charles-ben... As to the science: the original highly-questionable IARC determination has since been contested by both the European Chemical Agency and th…

I'm in full agreement unfortunately as there is substantial asymmetry in funding between the parties with vested interests it's unsurprising it starts to get complex.

Ultimately, I think it's appropriate for things to be tested in the context they are used. It's just really weird to me that some governments are examining the evidence but not requesting 2nd (let alone 3rd) party testing.

It seems very irrational. Chemicals have different breakdown characteristics when mixed. Dosages are different from before. Consumer exposure is different.

Even if the impact is minimal, you should test and prove that it's minimal.

That they have avoided it makes me think they have something to hide.

Re: Monsanto Weed Killer Roundup Faces New Doubts on Safety in Unsealed Documents

#243

Post by grogenaut »

malandrew wrote: post #122
grogenaut wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did they autopsy her lungs? Also gold lung sounds like a pretty bad condition. You sure that didn't kill her?

She lived to be 103 and has Alzheimer's. Does it matter? Plus, at that age and frailty, lots of things could have killed her that a younger person would survive.

I'm not trying to be insensitive to your grand mothers death but you're claiming she smoked forever and had great lungs, sans evidence except that she died late. That's evidence but it's anecdotal as hell.

Re: Monsanto Weed Killer Roundup Faces New Doubts on Safety in Unsealed Documents

#244

Post by enibundo »

davexunit wrote: post #201
enibundo wrote: post #190

If you really are concerned about this : buy organic. If organic food gets more interest, more and more people will start growing it, and more and more people will have access to good healthy food. These poisons wouldn't be abused if they wouldn't be profitable...

Also, try growing a vegetable or two for yourself and don't use synthetic fertilizer or weed killers when doing so. Nothing can beat something you grew yourself! Growing herbs on a window sill is an easy way to start.

Yes:)

Re: Monsanto Weed Killer Roundup Faces New Doubts on Safety in Unsealed Documents

#245

Post by cies »

walkon wrote: post #194
cies wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I'm not against robots per se, I do wonder why "working the fields" cannot be made a good job for humans? Without this job I foresee several potential problems: large unemployment, people leaving the countryside, many low paying jobs that feel meaningless to the workers.

> I do wonder why "working the fields" cannot be made a good job for humans? You'll get your answer by working in the fields for a few weeks.

Loved it. :)

Re: Monsanto Weed Killer Roundup Faces New Doubts on Safety in Unsealed Documents

#246

Post by cies »

pjc50 wrote: post #138
cies wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I'm not against robots per se, I do wonder why "working the fields" cannot be made a good job for humans? Without this job I foresee several potential problems: large unemployment, people leaving the countryside, many low paying jobs that feel meaningless to the workers.

> "working the fields" cannot be made a good job for humans Manual farm labour is extremely hard work, "stoop" labour causes back conditions, and man+machine agricultural labour has a history of accidents. People already have left the countryside in the West; farming is a few % of the population, plus seasonal immigrant/guest workers. I'm quite happy to be on this side of the agricultural revolution and increase the…

Dunno but to me "working the fields" is more meaningful then being the marketing dude for some shitty consumer brands that cause more harm then good to the general population (yet because of the amazing marketing apparatus sell like hot cakes).

Now if only the wage gap between the two jobs was not that big, I think many more people would realize this and be willing to do the hard labour of working the fields.

Re: Monsanto Weed Killer Roundup Faces New Doubts on Safety in Unsealed Documents

#247

Post by cies »

rplst8 wrote: post #226
cies wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Will we learn in 30 years that milk is actually unhealthy I do not know if you are joking, but we know for some time now that regular consumption of dairy as an adult human increases risk for many health complications. (similarly evidence builds up against meat and eggs for some time now) http://nutritionstudies.org/12-frightening-facts-milk/ http://www.peta.org/living/food/reasons-stop-drinking-milk/ http://www.pc…

No one's life can last forever. I'd like to enjoy mine eating cheese and having a glass of milk with cookies.

That's a different topic. Enjoyment. We were talking about health.

Re: Monsanto Weed Killer Roundup Faces New Doubts on Safety in Unsealed Documents

#248

Post by cies »

reitanqild wrote: post #139
cies wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Will we learn in 30 years that milk is actually unhealthy I do not know if you are joking, but we know for some time now that regular consumption of dairy as an adult human increases risk for many health complications. (similarly evidence builds up against meat and eggs for some time now) http://nutritionstudies.org/12-frightening-facts-milk/ http://www.peta.org/living/food/reasons-stop-drinking-milk/ http://www.pc…

I know you are serious and I have actually heard this for years and was of the understanding that recommendations was now changing towards "milk and dairy more healty than previously though". Full disclosure: grew up on a dairy farm. Like milk. Might be biased.

This whole recommendations thing is a battle ground for corporate interests. It is better to do your own research (find doctors that argue in favour and against) and weight the evidence yourself.

> Full disclosure: grew up on a dairy farm. Like milk. Might be biased.

Dunno if yr biased. Only after to gather enough info and are ready to pass a judgment by yourself, then bias might show. Currently I expect your are merely uninformed. Some of the bigger "abandon milk" doctors grew up on dairy farms themselves.

And enjoyment is different story from health-impact. Some claim to enjoy smoking :)

Re: Monsanto Weed Killer Roundup Faces New Doubts on Safety in Unsealed Documents

#249

Post by cies »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #123
cies wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I'm not against robots per se, I do wonder why "working the fields" cannot be made a good job for humans? Without this job I foresee several potential problems: large unemployment, people leaving the countryside, many low paying jobs that feel meaningless to the workers.

> I do wonder why "working the fields" cannot be made a good job for humans It would make food expensive again. As of 2010, 1.6% of American and 14% of the world's workers worked in agriculture [1]. As recently as 1870, that figure for the United States was almost 50% [2]. Most of us prefer today's standard of living. [1] http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SL.AGR.EMPL.ZS [2] https://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/1981/11/art2…

> It would make food expensive again.

Yes. Expensive compared to other things.

> Most of us prefer today's standard of living.

Yet we've never been more depressed as a population...

Re: Monsanto Weed Killer Roundup Faces New Doubts on Safety in Unsealed Documents

#250

Post by dang »

ConfuciusSay02 wrote: post #225
adsfqwop wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you read the article? The court documents included Monsanto’s internal emails and email traffic between the company and federal regulators. The records suggested that Monsanto had ghostwritten research that was later attributed to academics and indicated that a senior official at the Environmental Protection Agency had worked to quash a review of Roundup’s main ingredient, glyphosate, that was to have been conduc…

No need to go through mental gymnastics, just call a spade a spade. He's a shill, and the poisoning-our-food industry employs the most shills overall.

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