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Saturn moon 'able to support life'

bbc.com

101–110 of 268 posts

Re: Saturn moon 'able to support life'

#101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, because they are maintained for tourist and historical value.

But said maintenance is relatively recent (~100 years?) compared to their age.

I'd guess that the Egyptians maintained them. If I'm not mistaken they where in pretty good shape during Roman times.

Re: Saturn moon 'able to support life'

#102
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you know it's a completely different category? We used to think all animals are incapable of intelligence and everything they do is "instinct". Now we know they can think, organize, have complex social structures, even imagine and form plans. Many show evidence of being self aware. So we're not special enough anymore and we have to come up with a new word? I don't buy it. It's likely that humans' extraordinary…

We used to think all animals are incapable of intelligence and everything they do is "instinct". Whenever I see this written I like to point out that the "we" in this case was only a vocal minority of people throughout history. Anyone who's ever lived or worked with animals, at the very least mammals and birds, would have observed them being intelligent . I'm sure this idea that people used to think animals weren't i…

Animals not being intelligent is also very convenient if the bible teaches that they're made for our use. There are fewer ethical problems if they're soulless automatons without consciousness or intelligent.

Re: Saturn moon 'able to support life'

#103
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've thought about this and my conclusion is that we will likely leave behind a very strange pattern of certain natural resources. "Oh, look, here's a vein of copper! It's getting better, and better, and, that's weird, it's gone now and there's a complete break in the strata for some reason." Over time new mountains may form some new deposits, but it may be noticeable in the older mountains (that are today the younge…

If there were any high-intelligence species before they must have exited in a time predating current coal and oil formation, or were not technologically capable, or found some other way of harvesting energy. The fact that we found massive amounts of planet-killing coal and immediately started exploiting it with abandon means that that did not happen before, ergo no technologically capable species on this planet for a…

I absolutely believe that any intelligent species that has enough intelligence to become interstellar will heavily invest in camouflage and become a lurker. Only reacting when something threatens its survival. The universe is like a jungle full of scary things, the only wise move is to watch out, be invisible and not make a lot of noise.

Re: Saturn moon 'able to support life'

#104
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If life is there, completely disconnected from earth life, IIRC (I can't find the reference now), the "dinosaur killer" asteroid would put rocks from Earth into space. With sufficient velocity that they could reach nearby solar systems within 100M years. So from a strictly physical point of view, I would argue that the odds of Earth "infecting" Europa with life in the past 3 billion years are pretty much 100%.

Europa is an extremely tiny target to hit randomly from Earth, probably made smaller by the fact that, in order to hit Europa, the object has to pass near Jupiter without getting pulled into it. On the other hand, there are billions of years of random attempts, as you said.

But there is a big lump of mass near Europa that tends to attract projectiles.

Re: Saturn moon 'able to support life'

#106
post #4

If life is there, completely disconnected from earth life, it would be dramatic. That would mean that our solar system, has life on at least two, out of nine planets. That would seem to indicate that life is a fairly common things on planets. It would allow to adjust the drake equation, to easily predict millions of planets with life. And that would mean a high probability of many advanced, intelligent civilizations…

Based on the developments in exo-planet research along with discoveries like this over the past couple of years, I would conjecture that life is ridiculously common. But by life, I mean microbial life. I would imagine that multi-cellular life is much rarer, and life capable of reaching human-level intelligence and beyond is probably absurdly rare, on the level of something like one species per galaxy. It's all worthl…

Why would life be ridiculously common? It cannot appear by itself, that would be "spontaneous generation" [1], a long rejected theory. The Earth is extremely suitable for life. It could've easily supported independently evolved life-forms. Yet every living thing we know has a common ancestor, including extinct organisms. Just based on that fact, the odds are firmly stacked against other life anywhere near us. The fact that we can observe life on Earth is just a consequence of Anthropic principle [2] and says nothing about the probability of life emerging on other planets.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spontaneous_generation [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropic_principle

Re: Saturn moon 'able to support life'

#107
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm kinda curious if there's any evidence that would support or rule out intelligent life having existed on earth before. I mean, if humanity goes extinct and it's another 65 million years before another intelligent species evolves, what evidence would they have of our existence? All our buildings would've long since crumbled into dust or been crushed by plate tectonics. Metal will corrode and rust away after a few t…

Largest stone monuments gone after 10,000 years? Are you sure? The pyramids are already approaching 5,000 years old. Do they show any signs of disappearing?

actually they do... also human intervention ensures they'll be around longer most likely

Re: Saturn moon 'able to support life'

#108
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do we know that 65 million years is long enough for a species with a human-like intelligence to evolve? What if our evolution was merely a biological fluke that took much less time than usual?

I think this is a particularly salient point. Earth is already well on the backside of how much longer it will be hospitable to life. First life was ~4 billion years ago. First multicellular life, 1.5. And now here we are, the first intelligence of our kind, clearly closely related to the animals we descended from, but just as clearly different in how our minds work. That's one example in 4 billion years, and the Ear…

My understanding from Astrophysics class back at uni was that sun-like stars spent 5-10b years on the main sequence, so I thought we may well have another 5b years of quality sunshine to enjoy. Or not.

Re: Saturn moon 'able to support life'

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is a particularly salient point. Earth is already well on the backside of how much longer it will be hospitable to life. First life was ~4 billion years ago. First multicellular life, 1.5. And now here we are, the first intelligence of our kind, clearly closely related to the animals we descended from, but just as clearly different in how our minds work. That's one example in 4 billion years, and the Ear…

My understanding from Astrophysics class back at uni was that sun-like stars spent 5-10b years on the main sequence, so I thought we may well have another 5b years of quality sunshine to enjoy. Or not.

You're right, in terms of the sun's ultimate lifespan. Unfortunately for us, the Goldilocks Zone is very sensitive. To achieve full solar sterilization of the Earth only requires ~10% greater output from the sun, for example. And that will happen long before the sun leaves the main sequence.

To give you an idea of the timescales involved, at the very birth of the solar system, right after the Earth coalesced, solar output was approximately 70% of what it is today.

It's not quite as bad as it sounds- if there is technological, intelligent life on Earth a billion years from now, simple diffraction gratings at the Sun::Earth L1 point could stretch the remaining time for hundreds of millions of years. Not something we can currently achieve, but it is within the realm of possibility. Beyond that is pure speculation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_sunshade

Re: Saturn moon 'able to support life'

#110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We used to think all animals are incapable of intelligence and everything they do is "instinct". Whenever I see this written I like to point out that the "we" in this case was only a vocal minority of people throughout history. Anyone who's ever lived or worked with animals, at the very least mammals and birds, would have observed them being intelligent . I'm sure this idea that people used to think animals weren't i…

Animals not being intelligent is also very convenient if the bible teaches that they're made for our use. There are fewer ethical problems if they're soulless automatons without consciousness or intelligent.

Same goes for plants, but i don't see you and all the partisan Vegans (and in this case Anti-christian bigot) care for them, On the contrary, they mock everyone who dare to say that plants are intelligent beings.
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