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United removes first-class passenger to make room for 'higher-priority' traveler

latimes.com

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Re: United removes first-class passenger to make room for 'higher-priority' traveler

#411

Post by pkrawczykowski »

tici_88 wrote: post #17

Travelling in the US or with US airlines is not looking very good right now. Not just the United incident(s) but also TSA, Trump travel restrictions, flights constantly overbooked, massively late etc. I wonder if it will start impacting traveller and tourism numbers at some point. I think anyone who doesn't really need to be in the US and/or is planning travelling with kids is likely to have some second thoughts at t…

We just hired an Indian national at the startup I work for. He's on an h1b visa after finishing his masters in CS. Everyone at the company has to be registered with Homeland security. I'm so pissed. I think maybe we've convinced the CEO to just not and see what happens.

Re: United removes first-class passenger to make room for 'higher-priority' traveler

#412

Post by logfromblammo »

davidf18 wrote: post #401
InitialLastName wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amused and happy seems like a misnomer when applied to overwhelmingly invasive, unnecessary procedures. Have they actually convinced you that this is improving security?

Well, I don't believe the procedures to be unnecessary. Also, I am not a citizen of Israel but rather a guest, so anything to protect the citizens and other guests from terrorism. In my opinion, if US airport security was run according to Israeli standards, 9/11 would have been less likely.

If US airport security was run according to Israeli standards, all international flights would have to go through one of two airports, on the east and west coasts, each of which would have to be larger than ORD, JFK, LAX, DFW, and ATL combined. The special school required to train the screeners would effectively be the largest college in the world.

International tourism both in and out would shrink dramatically, as there are precious few religions that consider anywhere in the US to be special holy sites, and plenty of places to see in the US that don't require intensive security screening. No one I know would ever be amused by a strip search.

The Israeli air travel strategy just doesn't scale up quite that well.

Re: United removes first-class passenger to make room for 'higher-priority' traveler

#413

Post by dragontamer »

imgabe wrote: post #393
dragontamer wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're talking about ~0.1% to 1% probabilities here of overbooked flights. (EDIT: Apparently we're talking even smaller: 0.01% to 0.1% probabilities... actually) That's not every flight. Small enough that its too small for anecdotal evidence to be useful, big enough that it causes media stories. Every airline has some degree of overbooking necessary because flights get delayed, connecting flights lose passengers, and…

That's only the involuntary bumps. If you divide out the numbers for the voluntary denied boardings, United is #3 behind Skywest and Expressjet - far worse than other major carriers for overbooking flights. This is naturally going to create a systemic problem when there's too many overbooked flights. If you have to bump some passengers from flight 1, then they try to get on flight 2, but flight 2 is ALSO overbooked,…

Voluntary is a bit harder to compare though. For one, because its not necessarily wrong for people to give up their seat for money. If I were going on a vacation and someone offered me $400 to take a flight 2-hours later, I probably would take the $400.

In any case, United is not the worst offender in either voluntary nor involuntary "bumps".

Re: United removes first-class passenger to make room for 'higher-priority' traveler

#414

Post by jpttsn »

CoolGuySteve wrote: post #135
jpttsn wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Airlines seem pretty regulated already. Maybe there's another word for what you want to happen?

This strategy of yours of feigning incredulousness instead of forming an articulate thought is ingenious and hilarious but I'm not sure it will be very effective here.

I'm just a stupid man asking questions

Re: United removes first-class passenger to make room for 'higher-priority' traveler

#415

Post by zippergz »

dagenleg wrote: post #191
zippergz wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a paid United Club membership. Those lounges are already pretty full a lot of the time, and one of the biggest reasons I (and many of the other members I know) pay for it is exactly the situation you describe. When something goes wrong with a flight, it's well worth the cost of the membership to have helpful agents, minimal lines, and a nice place to relax. It's not about the free mediocre food. Having a place…

I too do enjoy paying the bribe just to get an acceptable service! Oh, it's just like when visiting a poor post-Soviet country. I am so glad that United officially incorporated this wonderful custom. No longer do I need to decide on the bribe amount on a per-case basis, I can now just pay once!

It's market segmentation. Most of the traveling public is cheapskates who will buy the lowest fare they see, no matter the consequences. This is an option for those who aren't purely driven by budget to pay for a better experience. I guarantee you that if United increased fares to hire enough staff to provide the same level of service you get in the lounge (with almost no line to talk to someone even in event of a major disruption), most people would switch to another airline.

Re: United removes first-class passenger to make room for 'higher-priority' traveler

#416

Post by squarefoot »

InitialLastName wrote: post #409
davidf18 wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I don't believe the procedures to be unnecessary. Also, I am not a citizen of Israel but rather a guest, so anything to protect the citizens and other guests from terrorism. In my opinion, if US airport security was run according to Israeli standards, 9/11 would have been less likely.

If they had locked and reinforced the cockpit doors, 9/11 wouldn't have happened. That's all it takes.

Before 9/11 there was no perception of that necessity though.

Re: United removes first-class passenger to make room for 'higher-priority' traveler

#417

Post by meddlepal »

driverdan wrote: post #241
meddlepal wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never had an issue at Logan (Boston), SFO, Seattle or Austin. Usually past security in 20 min and I do not use precheck.

When are you flying? BOS and SEA have some of the longest TSA lines in the country. I've waited over an hour in line at both. I've gotten through BOS in 20 min but that's the exception, not the rule. AUS has gotten a lot worse too.

I fly in the morning and usually on Mondays and Tuesdays when I do fly from BOS. Departure's are usually in 7-8AM time frame. I've never had an issue getting through quickly. Maybe I'm just extremely lucky.

Re: United removes first-class passenger to make room for 'higher-priority' traveler

#418

Post by davidf18 »

squarefoot wrote: post #416
InitialLastName wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they had locked and reinforced the cockpit doors, 9/11 wouldn't have happened. That's all it takes.

Before 9/11 there was no perception of that necessity though.

Well, Israel had done it for quite some time thanks to terrorists hijacking their planes. Plane hijackings have been going on for other countries for some time.

Also, IIRC, El-Al has an air martial (again former military in every case) on each flight.

Re: United removes first-class passenger to make room for 'higher-priority' traveler

#419

Post by davidf18 »

logfromblammo wrote: post #412
davidf18 wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I don't believe the procedures to be unnecessary. Also, I am not a citizen of Israel but rather a guest, so anything to protect the citizens and other guests from terrorism. In my opinion, if US airport security was run according to Israeli standards, 9/11 would have been less likely.

If US airport security was run according to Israeli standards, all international flights would have to go through one of two airports, on the east and west coasts, each of which would have to be larger than ORD, JFK, LAX, DFW, and ATL combined. The special school required to train the screeners would effectively be the largest college in the world. International tourism both in and out would shrink dramatically, as t…

Well, I respectfully disagree with your assessment. First, I don't understand the two airport thing. Second, the Israelis do a security check on people before they board the (El-Al) planes -- like a day in advance or more.

Also, we have plenty of veterans who fought in Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. who have real combat experience that we could pay more money for at TSA and train and staff appropriately. We could have air martials on every flight.

> "No one I know would ever be amused by a strip search."

Well, it was my own fault and a new experience and the agent/military guy was well trained and respectful. I was only too happy that they security was so through.

Israeli security is very professional and I don't feel nearly the same way with TSA in the US.

Re: United removes first-class passenger to make room for 'higher-priority' traveler

#420

Post by manyxcxi »

scriptkiddy wrote: post #336
manyxcxi wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Man, I'm not sure if your home airport is not very good, you don't travel that often, or if you just have a higher base level of anxiety or what- but any drive over 4 hours and I'm on the lookout to see if I can fly there. I frequently go from Portland to San Jose and back in the same day- I get meetings done and am home in time to put my kids to bed. I also just generally fly pretty frequently. I've got an Arab name…

>Man, I'm not sure if your home airport is not very good, you don't travel that often, or if you just have a higher base level of anxiety or what- but any drive over 4 hours and I'm on the lookout to see if I can fly there. I'm not the person you're replying to, but I do have something to say about this. Your situation is a bit different in that you need to be able to get from Portland to SF and back in a single day.…

That's a good point, I do enjoy road trips for the purpose of a road trip. I usually take two or three on my motorcycle every summer. But if I'm just trying to get somewhere (work, family for the holidays, etc.) I'd be happiest if I could just teleport. Until we all have a personal Scotty beaming us around, I guess I'll have to settle for Alaska Airlines.
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