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Low-Level Programming University – A roadmap to becoming a low-level programmer

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Re: Low-Level Programming University – A roadmap to becoming a low-level programmer

#61

Post by branchless »

itsokimbatman wrote: post #58
CliffyA wrote: post #6

As someone who can code in C/C++ and was recently looking for work, I don't think someone should learn low level programming for a career. What I would consider simple PHP jobs were easily paying more than C++ jobs. If you look at everyone reinventing the wheel in electron and not caring about performance I don't think the situation is going to get better anytime soon.

So I can only speak for myself, but I've been exclusively working in low level C type work for the last 9 years. Think embedded, kernel dev, reverse engineering, etc. type stuff. I'm good enough at it, but hardly an expert. I can't say I've ever lacked for work and I make $125k in a very low cost of living area, and if I wanted something new I could have interviews arranged tomorrow both where I currently live and pr…

Do you have a background in electronic engineering / good understanding of hardware issues beyond cpu caching ? Just trying to understand what $125k requires in this space.

Re: Low-Level Programming University – A roadmap to becoming a low-level programmer

#62

Post by itsokimbatman »

majke wrote: post #19
chimtim wrote: post #7

Low level programmer here. This is great but the job market for low level programmers is very small. Recently, while interviewing, I described a thread safe, concurrent queue implementation to a hiring manager and he asked me -- "so how does this relate to big data and ML"?

I struggle to find good low-level devs. It is surprisingly hard to find good C / kernel / network programmers.

You're not the only one. My company is desperate for good low level hackers. We can find people who know Python and Java for days, but people with the skill set we need are very hard to find.

Re: Low-Level Programming University – A roadmap to becoming a low-level programmer

#63

Post by xvaier »

kerny wrote: post #53
okatsu wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't spread generalizations like these. I'm sorry about the job situation in your area but I live in a Canadian metropolis where 1) there's no shortage of low-level work and 2) they will pay much more than your average PHP consulting shop. In fact, I maxed out very early what someone can hope to earn at my level of experience. My point is that your job market is not representative of the whole world and you'r…

Which metropolis are you talking about?

I'm willing to bet he means Montreal, no shortage of programming jobs over here.

Re: Low-Level Programming University – A roadmap to becoming a low-level programmer

#64

Post by itsokimbatman »

0xFFC wrote: post #21

About career, is low level programming job market that small we see in this threads comments ? I want to be C/C++/Rust programmer. This is quite frightening.

It's relatively small, but the amount of people with those skills is small too. Currently every company I know that needs those skills has trouble finding enough people, so talented low level hackers can pretty much name their price.

Maybe that will change down the road but it doesn't look like it right now.

Re: Low-Level Programming University – A roadmap to becoming a low-level programmer

#65

Post by s_ngularity »

cookiecaper wrote: post #14
CliffyA wrote: post #6

As someone who can code in C/C++ and was recently looking for work, I don't think someone should learn low level programming for a career. What I would consider simple PHP jobs were easily paying more than C++ jobs. If you look at everyone reinventing the wheel in electron and not caring about performance I don't think the situation is going to get better anytime soon.

Yeah, C/C++ is gradually becoming a lost art. Many game developers don't even bother with it anymore, instead just scripting out Unity.

I think that's probably true for indie game developers, but in the AAA space C++ is still king

Re: Low-Level Programming University – A roadmap to becoming a low-level programmer

#66

Post by RealityVoid »

pdelbarba wrote: post #50
zerr wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is mostly true for remote jobs.

Yea, it's hard to work remote when you occasionally need $100K in test equipment to do your job

That is an exaggeration, for most embedded jobs you don't need $100k in test equipment. I am sure there are exceptions, but usually you will need the target, a debugger and _maybe_ a logic analyzer or an oscilloscope.

Re: Low-Level Programming University – A roadmap to becoming a low-level programmer

#67

Post by pdelbarba »

RealityVoid wrote: post #66
pdelbarba wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, it's hard to work remote when you occasionally need $100K in test equipment to do your job

That is an exaggeration, for most embedded jobs you don't need $100k in test equipment. I am sure there are exceptions, but usually you will need the target, a debugger and _maybe_ a logic analyzer or an oscilloscope.

Usually it's around $10K (sig-gen, scope, logic analyzer, jtag) but occasionally there's an RF test chamber and associated gear involved :)

Also, if you're dealing with uCs, you'll almost always want at least a Saleae and a 100+mhz scope.

Re: Low-Level Programming University – A roadmap to becoming a low-level programmer

#68

Post by kod »

bogomipz wrote: post #25
hackermailman wrote: post #2

CS:APP 3rd version you can buy on Abe Books the global edition for $20, then follow this course and watch 'old videos' https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~213/schedule.html Everything in this style guide is covered in CS:APP https://matt.sh/howto-c There's also http://rust-class.org/ and https://www.nostarch.com/Rust

Wow, what great links! Thanks. Also I had no idea No Starch had a Rust book.

The No Starch book is just a print version of

https://rust-lang.github.io/book/

Re: Low-Level Programming University – A roadmap to becoming a low-level programmer

#69

Post by pdelbarba »

zerr wrote: post #59
pdelbarba wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, it's hard to work remote when you occasionally need $100K in test equipment to do your job

Embedded/devices aside, regular/high-level C/C++ jobs are scarce as well, in REMOTE space.

I've never been somewhere where I can't work remote at all, but you end up having to work closely with electrical engineers and that often leads to needing to be near an office. I'd say I actually need to be in my chair about 20-30% of the time

Re: Low-Level Programming University – A roadmap to becoming a low-level programmer

#70

Post by scruple »

CalChris wrote: post #33

Don't go there. There's really not a lot of work. But if you must, low level is more a calling than a learned skill. You probably shouldn't be learning assembler. First, compilers are really quite good. Yes, it's possible to beat them (I do) but generally not by much. And not by much ain't gonna put bacon on the table. You can probably get what you need from gcc inline asm() calls. Take a look at the linux sources an…

I've been telling people since the late 00's that starting my career in embedded was the single best thing that happened to my career. I quickly follow that up with the fact that leaving embedded was the second best thing that happened to my career. I've dreamed about going back, because I do miss it, but the jobs aren't there (in my area and especially now that I've fallen in love with full-time remote work).

I know a hell of a lot more about what our code is actually doing up and down the stack than my colleagues, including most of the managers I've had and "Principals" I've worked with and so on. It helps, a whole lot, in fact, and I find that it's personally rewarding, but it doesn't amount to much more than being the person who gets asked the challenging profiling/performance/optimization questions.

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