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United removes first-class passenger to make room for 'higher-priority' traveler

latimes.com

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Re: United removes first-class passenger to make room for 'higher-priority' traveler

#211

Post by davidf18 »

Actually, the Obama administration allowed United to take over Continental when we already had so few competing airlines in this country as it is, so Obama should be blamed. We need more competition, not less.

With the consolidation of airlines, it is much harder than it was to say you don't want to fly with them anymore and they know it.

The case with the passenger being dragged off the plane was not regular United but some lower-cost airline that has a close business relationship with United.

The CEO should have set up an on-call executive that can quickly deal with situations like these two cases. It would not be very hard to do.

Re: United removes first-class passenger to make room for 'higher-priority' traveler

#212

Post by ChemicalWarfare »

mpweiher wrote: post #29
paulgb wrote: post #9

He and the doctor may have a solid legal case: http://lawnewz.com/high-profile/united-cites-wrong-rule-for-... I hope for United's sake these are anomalies and not a pattern of behavior.

> ...not a pattern of behavior. It's actually far worse than just a "pattern of behavior", it is how United and other airlines (mostly US, but rest of the world is catching on) have deliberately structured their enterprise and the entire customer experience. Everything revolves around "privilege". Even 20 years ago, this used to be bad. On most European airlines' flights, you just waited at the gate until your flight…

>> Whenever I had the misfortune of flying United (an ever rarer occasion as I wizened up to the situation and later to "codeshare" flights), half the gate was at the counter, jockeying for perks and arguing status and privilege.

I don't fly United all that much so when I do - I'm in "Zone 4" for boarding which means I get to observe them do pre-boarding/global services/active military/premium and then zones 1-3 - I've never seen anything like what you're describing. Zones get called up, ppl board in their respective zone, not sure what's there to argue.

There's a "premium" boarding lane so if someone in biz class shows up when they are already boarding the common folk :) they can cut the line which I don't see anything fundamentally wrong with that.

Also, the zone-based approach even from the "Zone 4" passenger perspective is less chaotic logistics-wise as opposed to having everyone line up at the same time.

Don't get me wrong - flying is not a pleasant experience these days but I don't see this zone-based approach as a problem.

Re: United removes first-class passenger to make room for 'higher-priority' traveler

#213

Post by davidf18 »

tyfon wrote: post #108
tici_88 wrote: post #17

Travelling in the US or with US airlines is not looking very good right now. Not just the United incident(s) but also TSA, Trump travel restrictions, flights constantly overbooked, massively late etc. I wonder if it will start impacting traveller and tourism numbers at some point. I think anyone who doesn't really need to be in the US and/or is planning travelling with kids is likely to have some second thoughts at t…

The company I work at (in Norway) had planed to take all 70 employees to NYC this summer to celebrate a milestone reached. We just moved the whole thing to Paris instead as we had issues with all of the above, including employees that have visited "dangerous" countries. The thing that pushed everyone over was when our former prime minster was harassed[1] at the border for having been to a meeting in Iran. It says in…

Well, I'm very sorry your employees missed out on visiting NYC. As a NYC resident and as someone who has been to Paris many times, Paris is very nice.

But people that come to NYC have a much greater experience. In the past month I met both an Italian who came here for the first time and an Israeli and both of them were so happy to be here.

I think your employer should schedule a trip to NYC for these 70 employees -- they must deserve it!

Re: United removes first-class passenger to make room for 'higher-priority' traveler

#214

Post by Johnnybe »

tici_88 wrote: post #17

Travelling in the US or with US airlines is not looking very good right now. Not just the United incident(s) but also TSA, Trump travel restrictions, flights constantly overbooked, massively late etc. I wonder if it will start impacting traveller and tourism numbers at some point. I think anyone who doesn't really need to be in the US and/or is planning travelling with kids is likely to have some second thoughts at t…

I really hope so. We need less tourists here!

Re: United removes first-class passenger to make room for 'higher-priority' traveler

#215

Post by mirimir »

colmvp wrote: post #170
Gracana wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like being arrested for resisting arrest.

Anytime someone mentions that, I'm reminded of the SFPD https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qhzdxYnwhg

And https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTNu-nmu2kk

Re: United removes first-class passenger to make room for 'higher-priority' traveler

#216

Post by dastbe »

coldpie wrote: post #180
talmand wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, if you knew the rule before going in, then from my perspective you were the one wasting everybody's time. Sure, you can view it as a stupid rule but being stupid is not the way to combat a stupid rule. As for TSA security theater and it's bloated budget, right on.

I had some crazy notion that maybe the guy would use his gray matter and realize that water is not very dangerous and would maybe let me sneak through with some water because water is not very dangerous. Live and learn, I guess.

He probably used his grey matter to realize that he'd rather not risk losing his job for some random person.

Re: United removes first-class passenger to make room for 'higher-priority' traveler

#217

Post by mkl »

hackermailman wrote: post #162
nxtrafalgar wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am constantly surprised when reading about the US. You would think that there would be more similarities with New Zealand, my home country. Anecdotally; I flew to Australia a few months ago on an economy-class ticket purchased at very short notice. My trip through both Auckland and Melbourne airports was very pleasant, and I had no need to even interact with any of the personnel the whole way through. The flight wa…

NZ and Australia have open skies agreements though, the airlines actually have to compete with each other instead of being granted monopolies.

Technically, yes, but there's very little actual competition on many routes. Domestically in NZ between the main centres there's Air New Zealand and Jetstar. I doubt I'll ever fly Jetstar as I know too many people who've had Jetstar flights cancelled on them at the last minute. Ten years or so ago it was a different story, with more airlines competing.

Re: United removes first-class passenger to make room for 'higher-priority' traveler

#218

Post by MarkMc »

yodsanklai wrote: post #121
Klathmon wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotally I've noticed that for like 5 years now my friends and family have a pretty severe aversion to flying anywhere for anything. From needing to show up hours before the flight, to the invasive screenings, the insane restrictions on what you can and cannot bring, the sentiment that if you check any baggage it's basically as good as gone, the ever increasing cost, the delays, and even things like the worry abou…

You're painting a darker picture than what it really is :) Most of the time, things go smoothly and flights are very affordable. I find it amazing that as a middle class person I can fly pretty much anywhere in the world. I can live with the inconvenience of being scolded by the TSA and US customs officers. Actually, I wonder how much this will last considering that fossil energy will likely cost more and more and th…

> I wonder how much this will last considering that fossil energy will likely cost more and more and that more and more people from developing countries start to travel too.

Actually I think the cost of fuel to fly a passenger from New York to London will be cheaper in 30 years, for two reasons: (a) Motor vehicles will no longer be powered by gasoline; and (B) planes will continue to become more fuel efficient.

Re: United removes first-class passenger to make room for 'higher-priority' traveler

#219

Post by deong »

shimon_e wrote: post #53
pbhjpbhj wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to see you try?

I have multiple times deboarded a plane before take off. Due to change in business plans, flight delays, etc. In one case a passenger was sick on board and I asked to deboard as I didn't want to risk getting their cold. This was all on Asian airlines. My few experiences on United have been terrible. So in this case I'd say the regulations guiding airlines is fair. United's execution of these regulations is the proble…

So the computer picks 8 people, and you call out the first four on the list. One of them refuses, just like what happened here. Now what?

Your solution just has the airline crew going, "Fair enough, sir, you can stay" and then calling the next name. At that point, the next person knows that refusing is allowed, so he does too. Pretty quickly, you're absolutely going to be on a flight where five of the eight refuse, and now you're back to bludgeoning elderly asian people. And at some point, the whole system becomes public knowledge, and you now add the element of fights between passengers because we all know that only four of us get to refuse.

Or you just eject all eight of them and four can later reboard. Again, what if one or more refuse.

There is a solution in place already. United just didn't choose to employ it. United offered vouchers to anyone who wanted to voluntarily give up their seats. They reportedly bumped the offer one time. They didn't bump it enough. There's your solution. I promise you everyone on that plane had a price. You can find four people who'll take say $2000 to miss a flight to fucking Louisville. Does United think $2000 is too much? I guess so, but at that point, United has a problem that can be solved by effectively buying back some seats, and sellers get to set the price they'll take. It would have been a hell of a lot cheaper to have paid them.

Re: United removes first-class passenger to make room for 'higher-priority' traveler

#220

Post by microtonal »

wazoox wrote: post #172
linker3000 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I asked United whether I could use their lounge at SFO as they cancelled my flight to Heathrow and I was going to be waiting the best part of a day for a flight to Dulles to take an alternative that would get me home 1.5 days late. By the look on the faces of the two lounge receptionists, you'd think I'd asked if I could take a dump on their desk. "Other people have paid membership to use this lounge" I was told in a…

Contrast that to my flight to Edinburgh on Air France last year; we arrived slightly late and were directed to the wrong line, getting us to miss the plane, arguably partly because we were late, and partly because the wrong instructions. We were offered access to the lounge for the many hours wainting for the next flight, without paying anything for food, drinks and internet, while having only paid for economy class.

Same here with Lufthansa, economy class. We missed the connection due to a delay on the first leg. We were booked to the next flight two hours later (IIRC). We asked if they could accommodate our prolonged stay. They gave us a good amount in vouchers to spend at the airport, which we used to have a nice dinner (Munich airport has some proper restaurants). The two hours fly by in no time.

Despite the delay, we were happy customers.

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