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United removes first-class passenger to make room for 'higher-priority' traveler

latimes.com

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Re: United removes first-class passenger to make room for 'higher-priority' traveler

#91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to see you try?

I have multiple times deboarded a plane before take off. Due to change in business plans, flight delays, etc. In one case a passenger was sick on board and I asked to deboard as I didn't want to risk getting their cold. This was all on Asian airlines. My few experiences on United have been terrible. So in this case I'd say the regulations guiding airlines is fair. United's execution of these regulations is the proble…

"at random"... "from order of lowest priority"... pick one

Re: United removes first-class passenger to make room for 'higher-priority' traveler

#92
post #78

At the moment I wish United gets beaten up well for forced passenger removal earlier this week. However, IMO this article just tries to pile onto the "United stinks" meme and is poorly written (more emotions than facts). Some things missing (for me): 1. When did this happen? The article makes it look like this just happened, but does not mention a date. I suspect the omission is on purpose (if so, boo!; if not, sorry…

The information is missing from the story, but is available on other write ups of the same story.

It happened on April 1st. He was offered the difference in price between the first class seat and the economy seat. That seems like poor compensation since this is basically a form of denied boarding, which involves higher compensation. Perhaps technically, since he still had a seat, it's not denied boarding, but it's certainly worth more than the fare difference.

The relevant part is that the United staff specifically said he would be put in handcuffs if he didn't comply. That's the part to me that makes this fair game to bootstrap some attention from the other incident.

Re: United removes first-class passenger to make room for 'higher-priority' traveler

#93
post #9

He and the doctor may have a solid legal case: http://lawnewz.com/high-profile/united-cites-wrong-rule-for-... I hope for United's sake these are anomalies and not a pattern of behavior.

> ...not a pattern of behavior. It's actually far worse than just a "pattern of behavior", it is how United and other airlines (mostly US, but rest of the world is catching on) have deliberately structured their enterprise and the entire customer experience. Everything revolves around "privilege". Even 20 years ago, this used to be bad. On most European airlines' flights, you just waited at the gate until your flight…

I think that a large part of the flying misery has to do with airlines charging for checked bags in combination with constantly full flights. This puts the bargain shopping vacationing public in competition for overhead space with business travelers who go carry-on only.

Back in the 80s & 90s, it used to be that boarding order did not matter. You could walk up to most flights 1 minute before the door closed, and still find a space for your bag. (and you'd often get an empty seat next to you). When they started charging (and starting running more efficient, full flights), overhead space became really tight, and your boarding order (zone, whatever) suddenly became critical.

I don't see this changing anytime soon, since it mostly works to the airlines benefit. Eg, it drives membership in their frequent flyer programs and branded credit cards, as those often come with perks like earlier boarding and free checked bags. The one drawback for the airlines is the time it takes for them to turn around the plane, now that everybody is slowly looking for spots for their bags. Some airlines are now starting to offer an even lower fare class which is not allowed to use overhead space in order to allow them to turn planes around faster.

I tend to just fly first/business now so that I mostly don't have to worry about it. I rationalize it by realizing that flying is so cheap now, that a 1st class ticket costs what an economy ticket did when I was a kid (in terms of inflation adjusted money), and that economy now is essentially a new dystopian sub-class.

Re: United removes first-class passenger to make room for 'higher-priority' traveler

#94
post #39

While this might or might not be technically legal, what shocks me is the response you'll see on online fora, that passengers should just shut up and comply, and that failure to do so is childish. These posts are often at great length, and laden with appeals to authority. Some might be trolls. But others appear to be by people who genuinely value an environment where the lowliest airline employee, no matter how poor…

> Who the hell ARE these people?

Americans. Seriously, authoritarianism is so deeply ingrained in American culture (right now?) that for any abuse of authority, no matter how petty, most people will argue that the problem is not the authority figure, but the person who decided not to comply with authority. I don't know exactly how this happened. But it's not just the airline industry.

Re: United removes first-class passenger to make room for 'higher-priority' traveler

#95

What a lack of professionalism. The customer even paid premium price to be in first class and instead of being notified at the gate, like any respectable airline would do, he's asked to give his seat to somebody "more important" than him when already seated. It doesn't make any sense, if that "more important person" came later, he should be the one getting compensated by the airline especially when the problem occurr…

I asked United whether I could use their lounge at SFO as they cancelled my flight to Heathrow and I was going to be waiting the best part of a day for a flight to Dulles to take an alternative that would get me home 1.5 days late. By the look on the faces of the two lounge receptionists, you'd think I'd asked if I could take a dump on their desk. "Other people have paid membership to use this lounge" I was told in a…

The receptionists were likely not United employees, they were contractors with some Sodexo-type rent-a-body company. Overworked, underpaid, why would they care about someone else's first-world problems?

Re: United removes first-class passenger to make room for 'higher-priority' traveler

#96
post #62
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, we know now that it's illegal to remove customers after boarding, unless they do something illegal. Saying no isn't illegal.

It is a federal crime to not follow crewmember instructions, so...

Not exactly. It's a federal crime to interfere with a flight crew.

https://www.justice.gov/usam/criminal-resource-manual-1411-i...

There's a lot of room in between a contractual dispute and interference.

Re: United removes first-class passenger to make room for 'higher-priority' traveler

#97
post #17

Travelling in the US or with US airlines is not looking very good right now. Not just the United incident(s) but also TSA, Trump travel restrictions, flights constantly overbooked, massively late etc. I wonder if it will start impacting traveller and tourism numbers at some point. I think anyone who doesn't really need to be in the US and/or is planning travelling with kids is likely to have some second thoughts at t…

It's never been easy to get into the US though, long before Trump they've been handing out arbitrary bans or doing nonsense like extraordinary rendition to 3rd world countries not respecting dual citizenship with Canada/Europe. I suspect nothing will happen because I can't remember a time where I didn't dread crossing the border all the way back to the Bush 1.0 presidency.

There's a NAFTA tribunal held once a week at major border crossings with Can/US not many people know about that can overturn the overzealous authority of border guards if anybody receives an arbitrary ban from entry I've had to use it a few times.

As for United Airlines monopolies allow this behavior to happen because where else are you going to go. United holds 73% of slots at Newark for example

Re: United removes first-class passenger to make room for 'higher-priority' traveler

#98
post #17

Travelling in the US or with US airlines is not looking very good right now. Not just the United incident(s) but also TSA, Trump travel restrictions, flights constantly overbooked, massively late etc. I wonder if it will start impacting traveller and tourism numbers at some point. I think anyone who doesn't really need to be in the US and/or is planning travelling with kids is likely to have some second thoughts at t…

My wife and I just got back from a trip to Italy. The flight was full on the way there. We went from Chicago to Rome. However on the way back we flew from Venice with a stop over in Madrid back to Chicago. The plane was only 1/3 full at most. I remember commenting to my wife how empty it was.

Re: United removes first-class passenger to make room for 'higher-priority' traveler

#99
By the way, in the case of Dr Dao it was also not overbooking that caused him to get bumped off, but airline's assignment of lower priority to him than someone else. Just like in the parent article.

There were other misreportings as well, not to mention that some news outlets ran character assassination stories and almost nobody emphasised that Dr Dao was a senior.

The best piece I've seen deconstructing this is http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2017/04/united-passenger-remo...

Re: United removes first-class passenger to make room for 'higher-priority' traveler

#100

What a lack of professionalism. The customer even paid premium price to be in first class and instead of being notified at the gate, like any respectable airline would do, he's asked to give his seat to somebody "more important" than him when already seated. It doesn't make any sense, if that "more important person" came later, he should be the one getting compensated by the airline especially when the problem occurr…

I asked United whether I could use their lounge at SFO as they cancelled my flight to Heathrow and I was going to be waiting the best part of a day for a flight to Dulles to take an alternative that would get me home 1.5 days late. By the look on the faces of the two lounge receptionists, you'd think I'd asked if I could take a dump on their desk. "Other people have paid membership to use this lounge" I was told in a…

Oh don't worry, I tried to use my Club Pass which united mails you as a benefit for paying for their stupid credit card. They said no, we have to save space for actual club members. And this is the least bad "United screws me" story I have.
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