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What’s New in Bash/WSL and Windows Console

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Re: What’s New in Bash/WSL and Windows Console

#201

Post by WorldMaker »

nol13 wrote: post #122
nailer wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft: I suspect this blog post is out of date and that, post creators update, this is now safe. If so, maybe you want to edit it?

Wait so you CAN edit linux filesystem files with windows tools now? That was the main tripping point for me last time I tried out the WSL workflow. Mainly just because a bunch of files in our repo were apparently named in an ntfs unfriendly manner, so when I tried to merge etc. the repo would get corrupted.

The impression I get is that whether or not it works depends on the particular Windows tool. The guidance and the blog post not to do it seems to be the best general advice. My understanding is that the unspoken assumption between the lines is that you may be able to find Windows tools that are well-behaved and will not corrupt things, but don't expect to find that many because alternate streams and complicated metadata are not things most Windows tool developers have had need to understand/deal with/round-trip to date.

Re: What’s New in Bash/WSL and Windows Console

#202

Post by lewisl9029 »

> In Windows 10 Creators Update, you can now launch Windows apps & tools from within Bash …

Can anyone verify if this means you can run the Docker for Windows client (the docker and docker-compose executables, not the engine) from within WSL, including from shell scripts?

If so, I can't wait to try it out, since that's about the last thing preventing me from using my usual Linux/MacOS dev workflow in Windows!

Unfortunately I'm running an Enterprise version of Windows, and the upgrade tool doesn't support Enterprise yet, so I'll probably have to wait for it to come through Windows Update.

Re: What’s New in Bash/WSL and Windows Console

#203

Post by dman »

mwfunk wrote: post #193
dman wrote: post #192

Please disable file notified hooks for files in WSL. One of the big reasons why I prefer to work on linux in office like environments is because Symantec etc heavily hook file IO on windows making things like compilation / checkout very slow compared to linux. When WSL came out I was hoping it would sidestep the slow hooked IO problem in windows but some investigation revealed that file modified / created hooks are s…

The problem is the antivirus software, not the kernel features that the AV software is using. I can't imagine that MS would cripple their OS just so that someone who mostly uses WSL can bypass the AV software that their sadistic IT people force them to use. The only solution there is to just not take jobs where someone can force you to use such machines.

Try creating a lot of small files, even microsofts own antivirus (which seems to be the most light weight of the anti virus alternatives) adds significant overhead. I know its not a simple problem, but since most large repos contain a lot of small files this does create a negative "workstation os" image for windows in my mind.

Re: What’s New in Bash/WSL and Windows Console

#204

Post by sctb »

badminton1 wrote: post #6
aerovistae wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft adds this amazing set of features and the only response you have is "your name is insulting the people you're trying to appeal to"? "Trying"? As if they're failing? Do you know how much people love this project?

[flagged]

Please stop violating the guidelines.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: What’s New in Bash/WSL and Windows Console

#205

Post by badminton1 »

ghshephard wrote: post #178
badminton1 wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many userland binaries that require far more system calls than bash. Take any general purpose programming language, like Python, Ruby or JavaScript on node as a simple example. Their libraries expose a lot of functionality that would finally translate into syscalls. So no. I disagree that bash was a major final milestone.

Here is an interesting link for you: https://thenewstack.io/future-wsl-distro-independent-flexibl... . In particular, check out this tidbit: “Until you run Bash, no Linux process can run on your machine. As soon as you open Bash, you can choose to start any background services you want to have run. If you want to have MySQL or FSH or ssh or Postgres or Apache or whatever run, you can start them manually or autostart…

That's specific to a Windows implementation.

bash is GNU bash, on every operating system. A Unix shell. It has been the same since 1989.

The authority on what GNU bash is and what it is not is GNU, not Microsoft.

Then GNU bash is not required to run stuff under Linux. There are system calls to run programs. e.g: http://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man2/execve.2.html

Many distros do not even ship with GNU bash.

The limitation you are referring to is purely artificial, since WSL implements those system calls (they're required to implement bash itself) and I bet they are going to be fixing it soon.

I recommend you the following book: http://man7.org/tlpi , go to Chapter 24. kthx

Re: What’s New in Bash/WSL and Windows Console

#206

Post by badminton1 »

laumars wrote: post #172
badminton1 wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point you conceded is literally the only point I've trying to make since the original post. Go back each level and you will see the same point being made over and over again. You owe me like 20 HN karma now. Next time, rather than rushing to downvote, accuse of trolling and insult, read more carefully.

You need to reread this thread because I am literally the only person who entertained your poorly written arguments and spoke to you like you weren't a troll. Instead of insulting me and demanding compensation you really should be thanking me for being the only person who gave your opinion the time of day. I wasn't the one who downvoted your comments. In fact quite the opposite as I actually upvoted your OP (I felt a…

laumars, 13 hours ago:

>So while the trolling remarks of the OP are clearly unconstructive, i can at least emphasise​ with why he feels the need to speak out against MS. He just did so in a pretty lousy way.

Just stay on topic and avoid personal attacks.

I have been consistently referring to GNU bash, Linux and Linux software interchangeably.

Creating confusion around those terms because is not in the best interest of the community of users of GNU/Linux.

Even if Microsoft, Windows and WSL never existed, GNU bash would continue to be what it is, which is: A Unix shell. Not a technical requirement to run Linux software.

Re: What’s New in Bash/WSL and Windows Console

#207

Post by Zekio »

emcrazyone wrote: post #162
RegW wrote: post #105

So what is the end game with WSL? What is it that MS is actually trying to do? I remember the NT POSIX subsystem, which was a bit of a joke. It was badly limited and just seemed to be a box ticking exercise to get past some government requirements (disclaimer: I don't actually know if that's true). Whatever the reason, we ended up having to port our POSIX software to NT because customers insisted it was POSIX complie…

"I do believe MS has changed. They don't seem to be the conniving organisation they once were" I think this ex-Microsoft employee might disagree with you. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPFbAqICUJo

Most of what he said didn't happen on 3 devices I updated yesterday

Re: What’s New in Bash/WSL and Windows Console

#208

Post by e12e »

nailer wrote: post #112
nailer wrote: post #75

Windows Console folk: any chance of tabs in the official terminal? Current Windows terminal options: - ConEmu: mainly excellent but a little dated - eg, the active tab color is hard to distinguish but it can't be changed, apparently due to maintainer's insistence it works on Windows XP. - Hyper: excellent but Ctrl C, Ctrl R etc broken in powershell. Adding tabs to the Windows console makes more sense than have a thir…

Edit for folks having trouble understanding: the post you're replying to literally mentions two of the best tabbed terminals for Windows. That's not the problem. A fast, inbuilt, 2017-era terminal is. - ConEmu has a UI that's a shotgun blast of shit. - Hyper still fails at basic shortcuts. - ConEmu plus other software still has a UI that's a shotgun blast of shit. - Some person's half maintained fork of putty is some…

> Some person's half maintained fork of putty is some person's half maintained fork of putty and we already have Windows openssh for SSH purposes.

I wonder if an MS port/fork/patch-set contribution to putty might not be the best way to a great windows console host. At least until there's a native port of libvt.

Putty gets a lot of the console handling right - while win64/32 openssh is pretty outdated and lagging as a ssh client - I find it's preferable to run a recent full openssh under wsl to using openssh on Windows over putty.

As for console for Windows - I'm currently using conemu - considering moving to putty, but haven't quite figured out if it makes sense as a local powershell (and ipython) host...

Re: What’s New in Bash/WSL and Windows Console

#209

Post by e12e »

ivanbakel wrote: post #140
nailer wrote: post #75

Windows Console folk: any chance of tabs in the official terminal? Current Windows terminal options: - ConEmu: mainly excellent but a little dated - eg, the active tab color is hard to distinguish but it can't be changed, apparently due to maintainer's insistence it works on Windows XP. - Hyper: excellent but Ctrl C, Ctrl R etc broken in powershell. Adding tabs to the Windows console makes more sense than have a thir…

I really support ConsoleZ. The UI is sadly still a little bulky, but you can do a good bit of configuration for hotkeys. The tabbing is nice, and it also to my memory has panes, without ConEmu's weird hidden tab system for them. It has the added benefit of you being able to pick the terminal to spin up, and whether you want Administrator mode or not, on every new tab, so you can be working in a bash tab and pop a new…

Is that?: https://github.com/cbucher/console

Re: What’s New in Bash/WSL and Windows Console

#210

Post by thomastjeffery »

finchisko wrote: post #17

>Upgrade In-Place ...though this may not result in an optimal instance. Wondering why such a disclaimer? Ubuntu apt upgrades are reliable. Or is it related to WSL? Anyway good job WSL team.

Unless you are using a functional system like NixOS or Guix, upgrading can leave a mess of old installed files, and can be unpredictable.
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