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Turkey is sliding into dictatorship

economist.com

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Re: Turkey is sliding into dictatorship

#41

Post by rz2k »

bpodgursky wrote: post #6

I've read the Economist for a long time, and they should be ashamed of themselves for not calling out how wrong they were when Erdogan was first elected. Their line was that the AK's "moderate Islamism" would be good for democracy long-term, and anyone who was afraid of political Islam was regressive. Yeah, sometimes editors and opinion pieces are wrong. But admit it when you are -- I haven't seen the Economist staff…

What kind of turnover do they have at the Economist? The writing seems a lot like a student newspaper staffed by really smart people who have studied a year or two of economics or international relations.

Re: Turkey is sliding into dictatorship

#42

Post by slurry »

untog wrote: post #18
rdmsr wrote: post #3

All you need for constitutional reform is a 50% majority on a referendum. That seems way too easy.

A timely warning to the US, too - as more and more Senate votes are being decided by 50% majority rather than their traditional 2/3 (EDIT: sorry, 3/5). That both parties indulge in it should be worrying to everyone.

It was 3/5, not 2/3, to break a filibuster, and the use of filibusters had been getting to unprecedented levels. The argument above was that constitutional change should be hard I.e. require a supermajority. The Senate rules as followed recently have been requiring a supermajority for ANY change. That is unhealthy.

Re: Turkey is sliding into dictatorship

#44

Post by NicoJuicy »

gkya wrote: post #21
TillE wrote: post #7

The only thing about this which surprises me is how Erdogan seemed to really want Turkey to become a member of the EU, and yet has been actively doing everything he can to make that impossible. Then again, he tends to say and do a lot of odd things, so I guess the simple answer is to not assume any kind of competence or rational thinking from political leaders.

The thing is today that's what goes with the base of AKP. Political leaders are never stupid, we sometimes believe so because they're doing things weird to us, while we are not who they care about at all. On the other hand, nobody really cares about Europe here nowadays, as in more than half a century all they've done is exploit and humiliate us. I, as a secular irreligious turkish citizen, don't want my government t…

Actually, I think your dead wrong. Watch what happens when you defriend Europe as a partner to your economy. We share a lot ( not the only country though), but if you attack us, we don't need to do anything... People just stop being interested in your country and your economy slips away. No outside Western investments and tourism anymore.

I don't know if that's a good thing, but you shouldn't be happy with what Erdogan is doing...

Wasn't the last line in a speech of Erdogan: Come visit Turkey. It means that he's scared for losing the benefit of being our friend.

Now, I hope you like tourism being partially replaced with 'friendly' Russians :)

+ Exploiting Turkey? Got real proof? I know for sure Turkey had good economic growth because of the EU, not despite of the EU. Then again, we will know for sure in the coming 5 years of I'm right or wrong. Already Turkey is beginning to slip in negative economic growt and that's not our fault. Erdogan is alienating European civilians

Re: Turkey is sliding into dictatorship

#45

Post by sdiq »

bpodgursky wrote: post #6

I've read the Economist for a long time, and they should be ashamed of themselves for not calling out how wrong they were when Erdogan was first elected. Their line was that the AK's "moderate Islamism" would be good for democracy long-term, and anyone who was afraid of political Islam was regressive. Yeah, sometimes editors and opinion pieces are wrong. But admit it when you are -- I haven't seen the Economist staff…

I think Erdogan, the dictator, and 'moderate Islamism' as you quote, are two different things and we shouldn't conflate the two. If anything, his arch-nemesis, the US based Fethullah Gulen, is also an Islamist though of a different shade. Now, if this Gulen (if it is true he was behind the recently failed coup, or, otherwise) did manage to lead Turkey and ended up being different from Erdogan, when it comes to the dictatorial tendencies being overtly exhibited currently, Islamism, I think, wouldn't be the problem here but Erdogan, the individual.

Re: Turkey is sliding into dictatorship

#46

Post by usrusr »

TillE wrote: post #7

The only thing about this which surprises me is how Erdogan seemed to really want Turkey to become a member of the EU, and yet has been actively doing everything he can to make that impossible. Then again, he tends to say and do a lot of odd things, so I guess the simple answer is to not assume any kind of competence or rational thinking from political leaders.

Did he, or did he really just want to seem wanting to, to those who liked the idea? I could well imagine the EU question to be one of those topics where one group is fiercely convinced of their answer whereas the other is mostly close to undecided. In a situation like that the opportunistic course of action would be pretty clear.

Re: Turkey is sliding into dictatorship

#49

Post by shepardrtc »

Vorch wrote: post #35
upquark wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes reddit and now HN think Ataturk was some sort of beacon of democracy? > In January 1920, Mustafa Kemal advanced his troops into Marash where the Battle of Marash ensued against the French Armenian Legion. The battle resulted in a Turkish victory alongside the massacres of 5,000–12,000 Armenians spelling the end of the remaining Armenian population in the region. He finished off the Cilician Armenians from…

Read more on what lead to banishment of Armenians. If you attack unprotected Turkish villages with the help of foreign powers and betray your neighbours, you face the consequences, this is war. Also there was no such thing as hating Armenians til aforementioned betrayal. At the time there were even couple of high ranking statesman like Gabriel Noradunkyan from Armenians.

Banishment? You mean genocide, right?

Re: Turkey is sliding into dictatorship

#50

Post by return0 »

treehau5 wrote: post #9

This is even more reason to contribute to activists trying to stop the conversion of Hagia Sophia into a Mosque. It is a piece of 6th century history that we as a civilization just cannot afford to lose.

As long as the monument is not vandalized, they can do whatever they want with it. It serves them better as a museum, testament to the universal glory of the city, but it's not like it hasn't been used as a mosque before. Of course Edrogan uses the situation to raise tensions between greece and turkey (and possibly russia), which gives him extra machismo points.
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