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Turkey is sliding into dictatorship

economist.com

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Re: Turkey is sliding into dictatorship

#11

Post by upquark »

gefh wrote: post #4

Sliding? More like rushing full throttle. Ataturk would be disgusted.

What makes reddit and now HN think Ataturk was some sort of beacon of democracy?

> In January 1920, Mustafa Kemal advanced his troops into Marash where the Battle of Marash ensued against the French Armenian Legion. The battle resulted in a Turkish victory alongside the massacres of 5,000–12,000 Armenians spelling the end of the remaining Armenian population in the region.

He finished off the Cilician Armenians from Anatolia, whoever was left under French protection and had escaped the Genocide.

Re: Turkey is sliding into dictatorship

#12

Post by treehau5 »

tdb7893 wrote: post #10
treehau5 wrote: post #9

This is even more reason to contribute to activists trying to stop the conversion of Hagia Sophia into a Mosque. It is a piece of 6th century history that we as a civilization just cannot afford to lose.

I thought it was already used as one? I don't particularly care what it's used for as long as it's generally open to the public, are they planning on closing it off to people or tearing it down or something?

If anything it should be a Orthodox Church, but since no one can agree on that, it should be transferred to UNESCO, and treated as a cultural site and museum. If it resumes being used as a Mosque, to avoid any slippery slope fallacies, it will most likely result in a lot of the preservation of the historicity of the location being lost.

Re: Turkey is sliding into dictatorship

#13

Post by tptacek »

treehau5 wrote: post #9

This is even more reason to contribute to activists trying to stop the conversion of Hagia Sophia into a Mosque. It is a piece of 6th century history that we as a civilization just cannot afford to lose.

Yes, definitely a good reason to re-litigate historical events from 1451.

Re: Turkey is sliding into dictatorship

#14

Post by davidw »

bpodgursky wrote: post #6

I've read the Economist for a long time, and they should be ashamed of themselves for not calling out how wrong they were when Erdogan was first elected. Their line was that the AK's "moderate Islamism" would be good for democracy long-term, and anyone who was afraid of political Islam was regressive. Yeah, sometimes editors and opinion pieces are wrong. But admit it when you are -- I haven't seen the Economist staff…

They - at least for a time - regularly mentioned how wrong they'd gotten the invasion of Iraq. So they do that on occasion.

Re: Turkey is sliding into dictatorship

#15

Post by jrez22 »

upquark wrote: post #11
gefh wrote: post #4

Sliding? More like rushing full throttle. Ataturk would be disgusted.

What makes reddit and now HN think Ataturk was some sort of beacon of democracy? > In January 1920, Mustafa Kemal advanced his troops into Marash where the Battle of Marash ensued against the French Armenian Legion. The battle resulted in a Turkish victory alongside the massacres of 5,000–12,000 Armenians spelling the end of the remaining Armenian population in the region. He finished off the Cilician Armenians from…

It was war not genocide

Re: Turkey is sliding into dictatorship

#18

Post by untog »

rdmsr wrote: post #3

All you need for constitutional reform is a 50% majority on a referendum. That seems way too easy.

A timely warning to the US, too - as more and more Senate votes are being decided by 50% majority rather than their traditional 2/3 (EDIT: sorry, 3/5). That both parties indulge in it should be worrying to everyone.

Re: Turkey is sliding into dictatorship

#19

Post by lightbyte »

upquark wrote: post #11
gefh wrote: post #4

Sliding? More like rushing full throttle. Ataturk would be disgusted.

What makes reddit and now HN think Ataturk was some sort of beacon of democracy? > In January 1920, Mustafa Kemal advanced his troops into Marash where the Battle of Marash ensued against the French Armenian Legion. The battle resulted in a Turkish victory alongside the massacres of 5,000–12,000 Armenians spelling the end of the remaining Armenian population in the region. He finished off the Cilician Armenians from…

>What makes reddit and now HN think Ataturk was some sort of beacon of democracy?

I haven't seen anyone say that. People are specifically saying he would be disgusted with how non secular Turkey has become since secularizing Turkey was one of his biggest things.

Re: Turkey is sliding into dictatorship

#20

Post by aanm1988 »

untog wrote: post #18
rdmsr wrote: post #3

All you need for constitutional reform is a 50% majority on a referendum. That seems way too easy.

A timely warning to the US, too - as more and more Senate votes are being decided by 50% majority rather than their traditional 2/3 (EDIT: sorry, 3/5). That both parties indulge in it should be worrying to everyone.

The US should worry more about the electoral college finally breaking down and allowing the minority to control the presidency. Should worry more about gerrymandering too.
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