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Drupal Confessions – An Open Letter

drupalconfessions.org

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Re: Drupal Confessions – An Open Letter

#191

Post by marbletiles »

humanrebar wrote: post #187
marbletiles wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying that homosexuals are equal to heterosexuals is not a "trendy idea", it's basic equality. I'm not sure why you think "employment as CEO" is the metric for whether "we" "support and debate [inequality] as an idea"

It was literally a new trend in this case. The proposition that Eich supported actually passed with a majority of votes in California . The trend is that opinions have slowly evolved in the subsequent decade. The shift was from "we can treat people equally while keeping marriage heterosexual" to "gay marriage is an inalienable human right". Nobody was advocating for oppressing people in their minds.

Sure, to be fair, few people think they're advocating for evil. But the Supreme Court found it was an unjustified removal of rights, so it turned out that the holders of that opinion were, in the opinion of the court's interpretation of the US Constitution, in fact advocating oppression.

All of which begs the question of whether removing a CEO on the losing side of such a debate is tantamount to the imposition of a liberal orthodoxy.

Re: Drupal Confessions – An Open Letter

#192

Post by orcdork »

camperman wrote: post #141
orcdork wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Said the Sandy Hook shooting denier.

Of course. Because my opinion on Sandy Hook means the GP isn't using rhetoric.

Your opinion on the Sandy Hook shooting makes everything coming out of your mouth suspect at best.

Re: Drupal Confessions – An Open Letter

#193

Post by [deleted] »

Pxtl wrote: post #171
maxlybbert wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If witches are actually doing damage , then by all means hunt them. Thank you for confirming my point: there are people who believe McCarthy was wrong only because he picked the wrong targets. If he had picked other targets, the resulting witch hunts would have been acceptable.

> there are people who believe McCarthy was wrong only because he picked the wrong targets. "Actually doing damage" is a fairly good discriminator, imho.

[deleted]

Re: Drupal Confessions – An Open Letter

#194

Post by michaelsbradley »

simias wrote: post #98
rsyring wrote: post #15

Make no mistake, inclusion and diversity at all costs is the new "religious" standard. Your personal beliefs do not matter. You will conform or you will suffer. (Vote down, that's fine, but it's still true.)

You could have spared us the downvote bait but I do agree that this weird new "progressive orthodoxy" is worrying, and that's coming from a pretty hardcore liberal feminist atheist leftist globalist whateverist myself. I've worked with pretty strict christians and muslims in the past without issue. As long as it remains in the private sphere I don't see why anybody would have issue with that. It's also interesting to…

The whole keep-public-and-private-life-separate principle can itself be problematic. That is, it's not always clear what that even means. If it's the same as "never, ever do/say something offensive to current-day 'progressives'", then we have a problem.

Speaking as a Christian, I actively seek to more deeply integrate my beliefs into every aspect of my existence: how I do my work and fulfill my responsibilities, how I speak to and treat others, i.e. many aspects of my behavior that resonate throughout my daily life regardless of temporal or physical context (at the office, at home, etc., during work, during play). At times, this means my words and actions clash with the "progressive" culture of the software development world; that can happen because someone puts me on the hot seat, or because I choose to speak/act, according to my beliefs, in response to some evil that cannot be ignored. I do pro-life/anti-abortion volunteer work in my area — I don't wear it on my sleeve, but sometimes people ask, or maybe they've seen me out and about, so engaged. I have tech peers who've told me they find such activity heinous. I go to a church where most of the women in attendance (voluntarily) veil their heads during the liturgy — personal photos related to my liturgical life (an important part of every week/year, so media ends up quasi/publicly accessible via the usual social platforms) have... raised eyebrows among the same peers.

Who I am, what I believe — I categorically refuse to put a wall around those things so that "offensive" life-content doesn't leak into my professional sphere. At the same time, I don't actively seek to offend my tech peers and if I do get into a disagreement with someone, I strive to be patient, respectful, and caring. I have friends in tech who share much in common with all the above, but are more guarded (even fearful — that's really the thing) about insulating their traditional Christian lifestyles from their professional peers and employers. I certainly don't intend to out them, and I understand their fears, but that way feels duplicitous to me, and it's not a path I'll take.

Re: Drupal Confessions – An Open Letter

#195

Post by thehardsphere »

vertex-four wrote: post #75
falcolas wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that Larry's brand of BDSM (Gor) is not the "right" form of BDSM, as supported by "liberal sexual identity politics". As such, he was outed, smeared, and asked to leave the Drupal community.

He was asked to leave the Drupal community by its community leader against the recommendations of its Code of Conduct board, to a large amount of backlash by pretty much everybody , including many of those evil social justice warriors. Gor is, for the most part, a personal way of going about one's private relationships. Unlike e.g. red pill doctrine, Goreans still respect consent at its core. Men and women both enter…

> He was asked to leave the Drupal community by its community leader against the recommendations of its Code of Conduct board, to a large amount of backlash by pretty much everybody, including many of those evil social justice warriors.

Umm, no. The "Code of Conduct board" said he didn't violate the Code of Conduct, but they escalated the issue to Dries because _something_ came up that they felt needed his intervention.

We don't know exactly what _something_ is. Larry has decided to spin the narrative that it has to do with his Gorean belief and that this is "kink shaming", comparing himself to persecuted gay people. The counter-narrative has been "we're not going to say for confidentiality and liability reasons, but it has nothing to do with anything Larry wrote about."

Re: Drupal Confessions – An Open Letter

#197

Post by vertex-four »

thehardsphere wrote: post #195
vertex-four wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He was asked to leave the Drupal community by its community leader against the recommendations of its Code of Conduct board, to a large amount of backlash by pretty much everybody , including many of those evil social justice warriors. Gor is, for the most part, a personal way of going about one's private relationships. Unlike e.g. red pill doctrine, Goreans still respect consent at its core. Men and women both enter…

> He was asked to leave the Drupal community by its community leader against the recommendations of its Code of Conduct board, to a large amount of backlash by pretty much everybody, including many of those evil social justice warriors. Umm, no. The "Code of Conduct board" said he didn't violate the Code of Conduct, but they escalated the issue to Dries because _something_ came up that they felt needed his interventi…

They decided, rather explicitly, that there was no code of conduct violation. I don't know what else to say.

Also: your quotations around kink shaming imply that you don't believe this is a real thing. The fact that I have multiple friends who've lost their jobs because someone sent their bosses a set of pictures taken off of Fetlife suggests otherwise.

Re: Drupal Confessions – An Open Letter

#199

Post by lr4444lr »

dorfsmay wrote: post #151
lr4444lr wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CEOs serve at will. Their job duties include being an emissary to the industry, and leading the company's reputation. I say what happened to Garfield was wrong, but agree that the Mozilla board made the right decision on Eich, who could not effectively carry out his general duties given the PR liability he became - not of his own making even. They didn't say he couldn't be a part of the org. as a lead software archit…

To me, the message was "Mozilla is about promoting trendy idea", rather than openness. If we cannot support and debate "wrong" ideas, then we're not very open in my opinion.

I'm saying it's besides the point: the controversy became a distraction regardless of the morality behind either side, which was perpetuating an terrible divisiveness for too long in the board's estimation. We don't know what happened in the internal meetings about it, but we do know some of the fallout, e.g. OkCupid's redirection of Firefox users to other browsers. Eich's presence was toxic to the "brand" in a large segment of the community, and that's one of the primary duties of the CEO to keep in good standing - he became ineffective in that aspect, pure and simple.

Re: Drupal Confessions – An Open Letter

#200

Post by maxlybbert »

Pxtl wrote: post #171
maxlybbert wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If witches are actually doing damage , then by all means hunt them. Thank you for confirming my point: there are people who believe McCarthy was wrong only because he picked the wrong targets. If he had picked other targets, the resulting witch hunts would have been acceptable.

> there are people who believe McCarthy was wrong only because he picked the wrong targets. "Actually doing damage" is a fairly good discriminator, imho.

C.S. Lewis: "One man said to me, 'Three hundred years ago people in England were putting witches to death. Was that what you call the Rule of Human Nature or Right Conduct?' But surely the reason we do not execute witches is that we do not believe there are such things. If we did -- if we really thought that there were people going about who had sold themselves to the devil and received supernatural powers from him in return and were using these powers to kill their neighbours or drive them mad or bring bad weather -- surely we would all agree that if anyone deserved the death penalty, then these filthy quislings did?"
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