171–180 of 251 posts
I used the "Remove & replace" method and it installed 14.04 again :/
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I'm not going to disagree with you there but then I did cover that point myself about 2 posts earlier.
The point you conceded is literally the only point I've trying to make since the original post. Go back each level and you will see the same point being made over and over again. You owe me like 20 HN karma now. Next time, rather than rushing to downvote, accuse of trolling and insult, read more carefully.
I wasn't the one who downvoted your comments. In fact quite the opposite as I actually upvoted your OP (I felt a little sorry for you) but now I wish I hadn't bothered.
And for what it's worth, your original argument was not that Bash.exe shouldn't include the WSL. You've just subtly inched your way to that conclusion after all the other complaints you made were directly debunked. I even threw you a lifeline a few comments earlier (as referenced in my previous post) and you argued that wasn't your point, yet now -somehow- it is? Jeez....
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They want you not to install Linux, but keep using Windows. That way, apart from using their OS, you may end up using the rest of Microsoft software: Edge, Office, Outlook, OneDrive, etc. That wouldn't happen if you used Ubuntu. What I don't understand is why Canonical thought that shrinking their user base would be good for their business.
This increases their user base. Every time you install WSL & Bash on Ubuntu on Windows, you are getting a full Ubuntu distribution. The only user base that shrinks is the Linux Kernel user base; Ubuntu and Linux are two separate concepts, and WSL demonstrates that they are in fact fully separable.
I don't think this business model will last much longer, though ;-)
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1. Color contrast and it's ability to help users distinguish items from each other is a very well researched objective thing. Your personal experience doesn't overturn it as a concept, or make it easier for anyone else to find to find the active terminal. 2. That's great for you. My experience differs. 3. See 1, but for heirarchy. 4. Are sure you sure you can get the tabs all the way to the top? 5. See 2. I suspect I…
1. I'm not arguing that it is. There are more cues than color contrast before taking into account your mental state. As said, I wouldn't mind it being configurable but I understand the reluctance to do it if it breaks XP support. 3. Yes, a perfect hierarchy of the settings would be nice, in theory. Because never mind that what is important depends on the user and context - making the whole concept extremely tricky to…
> I wouldn't mind it being configurable but I understand the reluctance to do it if it breaks XP support.
Users running a current OS needing to find their current terminal should take precedence over a small number of people running an unpatched 15 year old OS.
3. Re heirarchy:
> never mind that what is important depends on the user and context
Ultimately more users want to change the font than integrate with 'FAR', or change the method of anti-aliasing used.
4. Interesting (this really should be a default). How do I do it?
> There are, understandably considering the amount of options
The Settings app has more options than ConEmu. It controls an entire OS and it's still easier.
> to help with that there is a great search function.
I've only just found that now, because it's in a different place to every other search box on Windows.
I'm not arguing the non-UX bits of ConEmu aren't great. I'm stating that ConEmu doesn't care about UX and it's really obvious.
So what is the end game with WSL? What is it that MS is actually trying to do? I remember the NT POSIX subsystem, which was a bit of a joke. It was badly limited and just seemed to be a box ticking exercise to get past some government requirements (disclaimer: I don't actually know if that's true). Whatever the reason, we ended up having to port our POSIX software to NT because customers insisted it was POSIX complie…
As a general rule, businesses will play nice when they have to (because of competition, public opinion, or government regulation), and they'll be ruthless where they can get away with it (due to monopoly status, high barriers of entry, poor regulation, etc.).
If you believe anything about a company, believe that. No company is fundamentally good or evil.
Now... corporations do have internal cultural that biases their ethical decision-making (positively or negatively) and various factors (inertia, founder effect) which slow down the rate at which they adapt their ethics to a new set of market/regulatory conditions. So perhaps you can trust/predict a particular company for the short-term.
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1. I'm not arguing that it is. There are more cues than color contrast before taking into account your mental state. As said, I wouldn't mind it being configurable but I understand the reluctance to do it if it breaks XP support. 3. Yes, a perfect hierarchy of the settings would be nice, in theory. Because never mind that what is important depends on the user and context - making the whole concept extremely tricky to…
1. You mentioned that you personally didn't have a problem with low contrast. If it's not an argument I'm not sure why you'd mention it. I can't find the active tab easily, but that's irrelevant too: we have long established research on contrast helping people find stuff, and measurably low contrast in ConEmu. > I wouldn't mind it being configurable but I understand the reluctance to do it if it breaks XP support. Us…
It is not uncommon at all to have a search-bar directly associated with a tree-view. I get the feeling that you primarily use other operating systems.
The settings app is an absolute nightmare. And that's understandable, because the target group are people with no interest or knowledge about computers or windows at all. So it is beginner friendly, but not user friendly by any stretch. Do not confuse the two. Contrast to ConEmu, not beginner friendly at all but quite user friendly.
I do not know how you've set it up but I'm guessing you need to: Main -> Appearance -> Title bar section, Check "Hide caption always". It is non-standard so that's why I think it is sensible that it isn't enabled by default.
I'm arguing that the UX is top notch for it's intended audience. If all you want is cmd.exe with tabs, then yes, I fully understand why ConEmu isn't for you.
But this is derailing, I probably won't be continuing this thread.
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I'm wondering if you are misguided here - and what Microsoft is working on right now is "Bash on Windows" - I.E. The console environment that people want to interact with when writing quick scripts, connecting to remote servers, maybe running a little bit of a local web instance. Speaking for myself, personally - if I want to run GNU/Linux software through the Linux ABI - I'm not going to be doing it on WSL - I'll do…
Bash is merely a Unix shell, one of many. What you describe is the GNU/Linux userland. They are working on people being able to execute unmodified Linux binaries on Windows machines through an Application Binary Interface that implements the Linux system calls and translates them into Windows system calls, among other things... and doing it in the most transparent way possible (not requiring specific builds of each s…
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Getting bash to run was a major milestone. Getting that application (which hooks into IO, process control, console output, devices, security, among many, many other things) is orders of magnitude more complex than getting something like awk running (and it still isn't 100% complete). I guess, from my perspective, the major deliverable for WSL was bash. You could have gotten hundreds of other subsystems in the LTP del…
There are many userland binaries that require far more system calls than bash. Take any general purpose programming language, like Python, Ruby or JavaScript on node as a simple example. Their libraries expose a lot of functionality that would finally translate into syscalls. So no. I disagree that bash was a major final milestone.
https://thenewstack.io/future-wsl-distro-independent-flexibl....
In particular, check out this tidbit: “Until you run Bash, no Linux process can run on your machine. As soon as you open Bash, you can choose to start any background services you want to have run. If you want to have MySQL or FSH or ssh or Postgres or Apache or whatever run, you can start them manually or autostart then with the .bashrc file,” Turner pointed out. “But as soon as you close the Bash console, we tear down any running Linux processes. So if you close the console window, you can no longer access your system via ssh, from your machine or any other.”
Whats interesting about this, is bash really plays a significant role in anchoring the entire windows subsystem for linux - more so than what you would normally expect out of merely a shell - to some degree, it is your user environment.
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Has Microsoft made any inroads into the embedded space? Maybe embracing Linux is part of a long term strategy to becoming a player in the IoT/embedded space.
Windows 10 IoT Core has been added to several prominent refrigerators.
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1. You mentioned that you personally didn't have a problem with low contrast. If it's not an argument I'm not sure why you'd mention it. I can't find the active tab easily, but that's irrelevant too: we have long established research on contrast helping people find stuff, and measurably low contrast in ConEmu. > I wouldn't mind it being configurable but I understand the reluctance to do it if it breaks XP support. Us…
I didn't have a problem with it as a whole. I never understood the tight coupling with FAR either, but it hasn't distracted me either. It takes me literally no time at all to change the font so why optimize for that further? It's literally the first option in the main section. And arguably changing the anti-aliasing is about as important as the font and should most definitely be right beside it as they are related. I…
- There shouldn't be a 'main' section. 'Main' isn't a category. 'Appearance' would be more logical. Neither should we show that many controls on screen: use a 1/2 heirarchy rather than frames.
- "not uncommon at all to have a search-bar directly associated with a tree-view" Yep, I'd ditch the tree view, and move search to top right to be consistent with other apps.
- "The settings app is an absolute nightmare." How? Settings is aimed at people who want to configure an entire OS - it's doing a more complicated job than conemu is. You could measure the time taken by users of different skill levels and they'd all have a faster time finding something in Settings. Again, let's get or look at data rather than caring about our personal experiences.
> changing the anti-aliasing is about as important as the font
It's not important at all. If you measured it, how many users want custom anti-aliasing options for a single app? Does iterm do it? Does gnome? are their forums filled with people who really need different anti-aliasing settings for a single app?
- Re tabs in title bar: I've never heard window chrome be referred to as "caption".
> It is non-standard so that's why I think it is sensible that it isn't enabled by default.
Word, Edge and Explorer all put useful stuff in the title bar. Seems pretty standard to me.
> I'm arguing that the UX is top notch for it's intended audience.
I understand. I'm arguing it makes decisions that UX research either already has or would prove to be objectively poor for all users.
Thanks re: putting tabs in the title bar!