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Drupal Confessions – An Open Letter

drupalconfessions.org

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Re: Drupal Confessions – An Open Letter

#121

Post by tps5 »

Pxtl wrote: post #92
Udo wrote: post #44

Expanding on one of the comments that might clear up what we're actually talking about (which wasn't made especially clear otherwise): >> "The Gorean philosophy promoted by Larry is based on the principle that women are evolutionarily predisposed to serve men and that the natural order is for men to dominate and lead." Even assuming this is Larry's philosophy, it is pretty much the same philosophy shared by many wome…

This is where professionalism is important. Firmly separating your personal life and your professional life. That said, there's a huge gap between a religion a person is imparted with as a child, and philosophy they chose as an adult and have jumped into with both feet. Many people come from backgrounds with bigoted ideas like that, but they don't colour their daily lives with it because they're not actively married…

I don't think you get it.

It doesn't matter what some guy posts on some message board (unless it's a threat, an incitement of violence, or something along those lines). It doesn't matter if he says he believes in "Gorean philosophy," whatever the hell that is.

What matters are his actions. If he's treating women disrespectfully then, by all means, throw him out. But he's allowed to believe whatever the hell he wants, and the idea that he should face repercussions for his beliefs is wrong, whatever age he was when he came to those beliefs.

Sure, there's going to be some correlation between holding misogynistic beliefs and inappropriate behavior toward women, but we don't punish the beliefs, we just punish the behavior. That's what makes this a free society.

Re: Drupal Confessions – An Open Letter

#122

Post by humanrebar »

speeder wrote: post #51
humanrebar wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without getting into controversial labels, it's not clear to me who did what to whom and what the people are petitioning for. I seemed to me that (all allegedly) someone was outed as into BDSM and was somehow treated unfairly. I think that certainly falls into the domain of liberal sexual identity politics.

Larry is Gorean Goreans are people that agree with philosophy of professor John Lange, that writes his philosophy in porn books with pen name John Norman What got Larry kicked out is that similarly to Abrahamic religions, Goreans believe there is an inherent hierarchy between men and women. Or at least it is what Dries (Drupal leader) wrote as explanation for the incident. So Larry is being punished literally for "wr…

Thanks for the info!

Be careful about the Abrahamic religions thing, though. There's a lot of diversity of thought in that space, ranging from conservative Muslim ideas to ideas that are indistinguishable from any given form of feminism.

And in that space, I would guess that "billions" is an overestimate unless you are speaking in the broadest sense, like "gender roles exist".

Re: Drupal Confessions – An Open Letter

#123

Post by vertex-four »

julie1 wrote: post #11

It convinces me Code Of Conduct are basically sticks that will not harm you when you are on the right side of them. Do communities needs sticks to be driven one sided way like cows? At this point it feels like they kind of defy their reason to be and are pretty misused.

The Code of Conduct didn't even come into this - the community leader asked Larry to leave the community when he figured that the board reviewing the supposed violation wasn't going to find that it actually was a violation. Or, in other words, this was someone completely ignoring the process because he was in a position of power.

Re: Drupal Confessions – An Open Letter

#124

Post by [deleted] »

andoon wrote: post #100
Pxtl wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is where professionalism is important. Firmly separating your personal life and your professional life. That said, there's a huge gap between a religion a person is imparted with as a child, and philosophy they chose as an adult and have jumped into with both feet. Many people come from backgrounds with bigoted ideas like that, but they don't colour their daily lives with it because they're not actively married…

>This, on the other hand, is an active choice. An active decision that women are our lessers. That's far more serious. As long as holding that belief doesn't affect in any way his behaviour towards women as a contributor of that project, then his beliefs are none of the project's business.

[deleted]

Re: Drupal Confessions – An Open Letter

#125

Post by nebabyte »

pryelluw wrote: post #64
irishcoffee wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For example, if a person has religious views that women should not work, should they be part of the open source community? Of course. Should they be a leader of the community and have prominent speaking roles? Doesn't this just kick the can down the street a few feet? It seems, and I may have interpreted it incorrectly, that the leader or leaders of a community must not personally hold any controversial views at al…

My question is: Who gets to define whats controversial? Everyone has an agenda. Seems to be that whoever is best at getting people outraged gets to control them.

The person in charge

"Well who gets to decide who's in charge"

Whoever takes charge.

It's like they're missing the point of OSS. If you don't like who's in charge, remix and make your own. Whoever is the more capable leader will have a successful project. "Beliefs" and all that other crap get left at the door, the race is for the medal - in this case whoever has the best project wins.

Though I suppose trying to achieve that with ideological witchhunts (and what, forming a 'cult of coding'? haha) is a viable strat too. LG was dominated by Kimura Kei for a while

Re: Drupal Confessions – An Open Letter

#127

Post by [deleted] »

redsummer wrote: post #111
YCode wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've wondered this for a long time but never felt comfortable asking... Has ethnic/racial diversity in the workplace actually been shown to increase productivity or innovation, or is that dogma used to justify the practice?

The article addresses this question: "Received wisdom is that the more diverse the teams in terms of age, ethnicity, and gender, the more creative and productive they are likely to be. But having run the execution exercise around the world more than 100 times over the last 12 years, we have found no correlation between this type of diversity and performance."

[deleted]

Re: Drupal Confessions – An Open Letter

#128

Post by lucideer »

iplaw wrote: post #40
fmitchell0 wrote: post #27

There is an important point that is being missed in this conversation. There are facts that are undisputed by both sides of the argument: - Should a person have a right to privacy? Yes - Should a person be discriminated based on their beliefs? No - Should a person in leadership be forced to expose their private life? No There are two questions, however, that is causing everyone to trip over themselves and table-flip:…

This is a truly personal matter that, in my opinion, bears no relevance to his public-facing leadership role and responsibilities. He's into BDSM, so what? If your PornHub/xHamster/whatever search history was exposed, how catastrophic would it be to your career? Would people that you respect immediately feign disgust, knowing very well that they have similar search histories? It's easy to point the finger when it's s…

The three articles (the open letter, Dries' blog post and Larry's blog post) are unfortunately a little unclear on this unless you read them in their entirety, so it's worth clarifying: though it's discussed a lot, this is not at all about BDSM.

This is about Larry's belief in Gorean philosophy (which Larry chooses to conflate with his involvement in BDSM, in my view doing a massive disservice to the elsewise extremely benign BDSM community).

Re: Drupal Confessions – An Open Letter

#129

Post by Pxtl »

maxlybbert wrote: post #116
Pxtl wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is where professionalism is important. Firmly separating your personal life and your professional life. That said, there's a huge gap between a religion a person is imparted with as a child, and philosophy they chose as an adult and have jumped into with both feet. Many people come from backgrounds with bigoted ideas like that, but they don't colour their daily lives with it because they're not actively married…

> That said, there's a huge gap between a religion a person is imparted with as a child, and philosophy they chose as an adult and have jumped into with both feet. Searching out which people have chosen a philosophy as an adult is how witch hunts start and are justified. I've heard complaints about McCarthyism and the Red Scare over the years, and I thought the moral was "witch hunts are bad." However, it looks clear…

Leftist beliefs aren't "half the population is my lesser".

Seriously, would you make excuses like this for a pro-ISIS muslim? A white nationalist? A violent anarchist? An antisemitic holocaust denier?

Believing that one person is less human than the other by the attributes of their birth is not a philosophical discussion like capitalism vs communism.

If witches are actually doing damage, then by all means hunt them.

Re: Drupal Confessions – An Open Letter

#130

Post by douche »

awinder wrote: post #71
LordKano wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eich didn't engage in advocacy as an executive, he did so as a private citizen.

He was being paid by Mozilla, and that money then ended up in the hands of people who weaponized that money against values that the people who financed that salary held. If people can't even vote with their wallets anymore, then we are creating a situation of moral hazard.

I guess you can't use any of your paycheck to support your union, then, because it is working against the interests of your employer who paid you that salary.
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