Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

We’re dropping Google Ads

groundup.org.za

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 617 posts

Re: We’re dropping Google Ads

#71

Post by Larrikin »

dheera wrote: post #40
mehwoot wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some percentage of users will use ad blockers, and businesses should account for that. How is that an argument for it? Some percentage of people steal things from stores, business do account for it, but its neither here nor there in an argument about whether people should do it.

Let's separate morality and legality. Morality is relative to your beliefs and values. Legality is common to all. It's illegal to steal physical property (payment transfers ownership of property). It's not illegal to not look at something. Speaking of which, I really want to write a real life ad blocker with a HoloLens or whatever AR equipment becomes popular in the future. Replace all the billboards with cat picture…

I'd much rather have the next few lines from whatever book I'm reading. Might as well replace it with something worth while

Re: We’re dropping Google Ads

#72

Post by a_t48 »

paulcole wrote: post #62
mikestew wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By visiting the site, you're entering into an agreement to exchange your ad views for content and you're breaking that agreement. C'mon, you know better. What agreement? If your answer contains the word "unspoken", I'll let you in on the real definition of that word in this context: "non-existent". I didn't sign anything, no notice was posted. The only agreement I have is that I ask for data, and should your server d…

Society has many unwritten agreements. You don't like ads, I get it. You take without compensating because you want to. Don't just shrug and say, "no notice was posted." Own it. Say, "I felt like taking this so I took it."

There are laws against stealing, they aren't "unwritten".

Re: We’re dropping Google Ads

#73

Post by paulcole »

TheAceOfHearts wrote: post #64
paulcole wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have the right to render your bits and bytes however I wish. Legally I have no idea. But ethically/morally, I'd argue you don't. By visiting the site, you're entering into an agreement to exchange your ad views for content and you're breaking that agreement. Doesn't feel right to me.

Consider the following: If you pick up a newspaper or magazine, is it wrong to skip the ads? What about changing the TV channel or radio station while commercials play?

I think it'd be wrong to hire a dude to clip out all the ads before I open the paper in the morning. I think it'd be wrong to mod my TV and car radio to change the channel when an ad starts playing.

Re: We’re dropping Google Ads

#74

Post by kaishiro »

x0x0 wrote: post #65
shawkinaw wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to feel that way, and still have absolutely no problem with ads in and of themselves. But they are the ones who breached ethics and morals by tracking me around the web, tracking my search queries, running all sorts of terrible JavaScript, and generally being dicks. So I don't feel bad anymore.

Doesn't stop you from consuming their content though?

Why would it?

Re: We’re dropping Google Ads

#75

Post by RodericDay »

paulcole wrote: post #46
dheera wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My attitude toward ad blockers was always "meh". I have the right to render your bits and bytes however I wish. Using an ad blocker is just modifying the rendering algorithm, much the same way as I could use a French to Russian translator, something that increases font sizes, or throwing on a custom stylesheet. I can write my own web browser, if I wish. Some percentage of users will use ad blockers, and businesses sh…

> I have the right to render your bits and bytes however I wish. Legally I have no idea. But ethically/morally, I'd argue you don't. By visiting the site, you're entering into an agreement to exchange your ad views for content and you're breaking that agreement. Doesn't feel right to me.

Are advertisements themselves moral?

How can you debate the finer points of whether accessing a website and rejecting ads is moral or not, when you haven't built a moral case for urging and tricking people into buying stuff that they don't need?

Re: We’re dropping Google Ads

#76

Post by kaishiro »

paulcole wrote: post #73
TheAceOfHearts wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consider the following: If you pick up a newspaper or magazine, is it wrong to skip the ads? What about changing the TV channel or radio station while commercials play?

I think it'd be wrong to hire a dude to clip out all the ads before I open the paper in the morning. I think it'd be wrong to mod my TV and car radio to change the channel when an ad starts playing.

Do you also think it's wrong to change the channel when an ad starts playing on TV, or to turn the volume down when an ad starts playing on the radio?

Re: We’re dropping Google Ads

#77

Post by paulcole »

mikestew wrote: post #70
paulcole wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Society has many unwritten agreements. You don't like ads, I get it. You take without compensating because you want to. Don't just shrug and say, "no notice was posted." Own it. Say, "I felt like taking this so I took it."

Twist it however you like, but just saying things like they're a fact does not an argument make. Making your case without accusations would be a good place to start.

Your argument boils down to "I feel entitled to something so I'll take it."

I call it as I see it and am not falling for, "I didn't sign anything. I'm just going by what I signed up for years ago."

Re: We’re dropping Google Ads

#78

Post by paulcole »

RodericDay wrote: post #75
paulcole wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have the right to render your bits and bytes however I wish. Legally I have no idea. But ethically/morally, I'd argue you don't. By visiting the site, you're entering into an agreement to exchange your ad views for content and you're breaking that agreement. Doesn't feel right to me.

Are advertisements themselves moral? How can you debate the finer points of whether accessing a website and rejecting ads is moral or not, when you haven't built a moral case for urging and tricking people into buying stuff that they don't need?

> tricking people into buying stuff that they don't need

This tells me all I need to know. If this is your stance on advertising, I don't know what to tell you.

Re: We’re dropping Google Ads

#79

Post by paulcole »

kaishiro wrote: post #76
paulcole wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it'd be wrong to hire a dude to clip out all the ads before I open the paper in the morning. I think it'd be wrong to mod my TV and car radio to change the channel when an ad starts playing.

Do you also think it's wrong to change the channel when an ad starts playing on TV, or to turn the volume down when an ad starts playing on the radio?

No. I also don't think it's wrong to navigate away from a website when it loads an ad I don't like.

Re: We’re dropping Google Ads

#80

Post by dheera »

rootusrootus wrote: post #53
paulcole wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have the right to render your bits and bytes however I wish. Legally I have no idea. But ethically/morally, I'd argue you don't. By visiting the site, you're entering into an agreement to exchange your ad views for content and you're breaking that agreement. Doesn't feel right to me.

I agree. It's just like any other kind of piracy. If the content isn't valuable enough to see with ads enabled, then the ethical answer is to not view the content at all.

I read newspapers without looking at the ads. I use highways and public transportation without looking at the billboards. I don't see how it's any different.

I would say it should be arguably illegal to resell content with ads removed, but how something is rendered in my brain or inside the confines of my home is upto me to decide. There's nothing illegal about ripping out the ad pages before reading a magazine at home.

Post reply on HN