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The Website Obesity Crisis (2015)

idlewords.com

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Re: The Website Obesity Crisis (2015)

#31

Post by gwu78 »

gwu78 wrote: post #11

"This is a screenshot from an article on NPR discussing the rising use of ad blockers. It is 12 megabytes in size..." Hmmm. When I save this page from my browser it's 116k. "... in a stock web browser." Ah-ha. Perhaps the web browser I am using is not "stock". If so, I can still read the article without a "stock" browser, so not sure what is behind this "stock" idea. I am assuming reading the article is the goal? Cou…

FYI the browser I use does not download resources automatically. This way I just get the page with the content: the text of the article. That is all I want.

To read articles, which are just text, I access the web in VGA textmode with a text-only browser. I never see any ads.

There is no such thing as "load time" with this "UX". All pages load fast.

I do DNS lookups in bulk and store IPs before doing any HTTP requests, so I take time consumed by DNS out of the equation. I do not store IPs of ad servers, Facebook domains serving hidden beacon images and other nonsense. I never access these resources.

If I want to look at images or watch videos, I download them and use other programs running on other computers with graphics to view them. Those computers have no gateway to the internet.

For someone who likes to read, it all works very well. But if I was forced to use a "stock" browser of some organization's choosing (Google, MS, Apple, Mozilla, etc.), then perhaps I would have a very different "user experience" - heaps of ads. I suspect this is because those organizations place advertisers before users. If the ad sales business were to dry up it would be a disaster for some of those organizations.

Fortunately, I do not need those browsers to read the news.

Re: The Website Obesity Crisis (2015)

#32

Post by [deleted] »

frogfuzion wrote: post #20

This is a repost. I'm guessing due to the blowup of the electron post. There is no right answer. A huge fat bloated website can be successful (see BuzzFeed for the general population), or a lightweight text based informational website can be successful (see hacker news for you guys). Same thing for the electron debate. A bloated web app ported to desktop could just be as successful as a native app and vice versa. The…

[deleted]

Re: The Website Obesity Crisis (2015)

#33

Post by jasonkostempski »

exelius wrote: post #25

Agree 100%. Advertising is a zero sum game. If an advertiser's budget is $5, they will spend $5. They will spend $5 on as many dumb ads as they can get, and they will spend that $5 using very targeted means if available. There's a tremendous amount of effort expended in the ad industry with very little real effect than to direct ad dollars through that platform and maybe provide a temporary lift to response rates. Bu…

Even if you hadn't bought one yet, would you ever choose a specific product based on an ad? I wouldn't. Best thing an ad can do to me is remind me I need something in a category, then I'll go around internet comparing products and grab the one that looks best, especially with a product like an electric razor. Companies should be investing in making good products so that when someone remembers they need something, their product will have the most positive reviews and most reasonable price.

Re: The Website Obesity Crisis (2015)

#34

Post by gerdesj »

alexbecker wrote: post #17
gwu78 wrote: post #11

"This is a screenshot from an article on NPR discussing the rising use of ad blockers. It is 12 megabytes in size..." Hmmm. When I save this page from my browser it's 116k. "... in a stock web browser." Ah-ha. Perhaps the web browser I am using is not "stock". If so, I can still read the article without a "stock" browser, so not sure what is behind this "stock" idea. I am assuming reading the article is the goal? Cou…

When you save this page it doesn't save every resource downloaded. The correct way to measure is to use the devtools and load the page with cache disabled (to mimic a first load), then check the total content transferred. I get 1.8MB with uBlock origin on, and 2.3MB without. I imagine that the author either got a particularly bad set of ads, or NPR wasn't compressing some large asset at the time.

I suspect you might have missed the central thesis of the OP's article. He appears to be a Polish bloke with a command of English that is frankly rather good and runs a successful web business based around bookmark saving. His thesis is that many sites are a bit fat and slow.

The OP knows about irony. It is a bit like steely but with less carbon. If you are a web dev or dev ops then why not comment on the article rather than playing with toys.

Cheers Jon

Re: The Website Obesity Crisis (2015)

#35

Post by michaelmrose »

exelius wrote: post #26
frogfuzion wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed and up-voted. I think that is what I was trying to say in my rant. I guess as a developer though it's hard to come to terms with the fact that you are creating crap. I went through the same thing when I was a musician so it stings doubly.

The media fetishized a "techno-genius" that never really existed. Design and development are two very different skills, and it's rare to find a person who is good at both. But all things equal, a good product person can make do with shitty developers. Good developers can never overcome shitty product design. If you want to design apps, go to school for design.

I see what you think are shitty developers and raise you actually shitty developers.

Re: The Website Obesity Crisis (2015)

#36

Post by RodericDay »

jasonkostempski wrote: post #33
exelius wrote: post #25

Agree 100%. Advertising is a zero sum game. If an advertiser's budget is $5, they will spend $5. They will spend $5 on as many dumb ads as they can get, and they will spend that $5 using very targeted means if available. There's a tremendous amount of effort expended in the ad industry with very little real effect than to direct ad dollars through that platform and maybe provide a temporary lift to response rates. Bu…

Even if you hadn't bought one yet, would you ever choose a specific product based on an ad? I wouldn't. Best thing an ad can do to me is remind me I need something in a category, then I'll go around internet comparing products and grab the one that looks best, especially with a product like an electric razor. Companies should be investing in making good products so that when someone remembers they need something, the…

I hate advertising. However, I think a glib dismissal like this one underrates the power of ads a lot, and for me it's important to not underestimate my adversary.

Sure, when I research virtually anything for myself, down to soy sauce or toothbrushes, I will literally go and seek out reviews and do some legwork.

The real question is what happens when you are in a pinch. You're driving to your brother's house for dinner, and recall that you forgot to buy a toy for your nephew's birthday. Precisely there you'll be nabbed by a tendency to go for the "can't go wrong" choice, and the perception of the can't go wrong choice will have probably been created by advertising.

So, don't sell it short. I agree with virtually everything; it's a worthless arms race and we'd be better off with companies focusing on quality. Just don't fall into the trap of thinking everyone can just use willpower to fight it. It requires more, as legislation banning cigarette advertising has shown.

Re: The Website Obesity Crisis (2015)

#37

Post by alexbecker »

gerdesj wrote: post #34
alexbecker wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you save this page it doesn't save every resource downloaded. The correct way to measure is to use the devtools and load the page with cache disabled (to mimic a first load), then check the total content transferred. I get 1.8MB with uBlock origin on, and 2.3MB without. I imagine that the author either got a particularly bad set of ads, or NPR wasn't compressing some large asset at the time.

I suspect you might have missed the central thesis of the OP's article. He appears to be a Polish bloke with a command of English that is frankly rather good and runs a successful web business based around bookmark saving. His thesis is that many sites are a bit fat and slow. The OP knows about irony. It is a bit like steely but with less carbon. If you are a web dev or dev ops then why not comment on the article rat…

Not sure I understand your comment--I was replying to gwu78's comment, interpreting their comment as a criticism of Maciej's (aka idlewords, the author of the linked talk) measurement of the size of the NPR page as not reflective of a realistic page load. Their subsequent comment makes it clear that they have a very non-standard browser and are criticizing the standard browsers, so I guess my comment is irrelevant.

> If you are a web dev or dev ops then why not comment on the article rather than playing with toys.

Not sure what you mean here, or whether I'm supposed to be offended. I don't think I play with toys--I host my own site, carefully keep each page under 100kB total, and am working on a framework to make it easier for others to do so.

Re: The Website Obesity Crisis (2015)

#38

Post by douche »

RodericDay wrote: post #36
jasonkostempski wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if you hadn't bought one yet, would you ever choose a specific product based on an ad? I wouldn't. Best thing an ad can do to me is remind me I need something in a category, then I'll go around internet comparing products and grab the one that looks best, especially with a product like an electric razor. Companies should be investing in making good products so that when someone remembers they need something, the…

I hate advertising. However, I think a glib dismissal like this one underrates the power of ads a lot, and for me it's important to not underestimate my adversary. Sure, when I research virtually anything for myself, down to soy sauce or toothbrushes, I will literally go and seek out reviews and do some legwork. The real question is what happens when you are in a pinch. You're driving to your brother's house for dinn…

If it's a nephew, and they are old enough to not asphyxiate themselves, then the obvious answer is always Lego. Little boys fucking love Legos.

Re: The Website Obesity Crisis (2015)

#39

Post by alexbecker »

gwu78 wrote: post #31
gwu78 wrote: post #11

"This is a screenshot from an article on NPR discussing the rising use of ad blockers. It is 12 megabytes in size..." Hmmm. When I save this page from my browser it's 116k. "... in a stock web browser." Ah-ha. Perhaps the web browser I am using is not "stock". If so, I can still read the article without a "stock" browser, so not sure what is behind this "stock" idea. I am assuming reading the article is the goal? Cou…

FYI the browser I use does not download resources automatically. This way I just get the page with the content: the text of the article. That is all I want. To read articles, which are just text, I access the web in VGA textmode with a text-only browser. I never see any ads. There is no such thing as "load time" with this "UX". All pages load fast. I do DNS lookups in bulk and store IPs before doing any HTTP requests…

Thanks for clarifying--I assumed that you were using a standard browser, and were confused why the size of the file the browser downloads when you use "Save As" was less than Maciej reported.

Is your browser publicly available? Did you create it yourself--and if so, what did you use?

Re: The Website Obesity Crisis (2015)

#40

Post by Neliquat »

gerdesj wrote: post #9
Terr_ wrote: post #5

My strategy has been to disable all javascript by default, and whitelist specific sites. So far I'm pleased with the result, especially how fast most of the random HN/Reddit links load.

Every now (when I break X through a badly chosen compiler flag or whatever) and then I use Lynx. It takes me right back to WAIS n Gopher before this newfangled www thing appeared 8) I used to telnet a VAX, then a X25 PAD, then to the outer reaches of JANET then to NIST (I think). Then I got to fire up Gopher. sigh (not) the good old days. I can't even remember why - probably to download fractal porn or something equa…

That sounds like my old msu connection...
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