641–650 of 1001 posts
Electron, on the other hand, is open source and can be built for a wide variety of systems and CPU architectures, as well as it can be audited for security issues.
Here's the thing. You know what the alternative to all of these Electron apps coming out is? If your answer is "A native Cocoa/WPF app", you are on another planet, the answer is, "It wouldn't exist at all". Nobody in the last 5-10 years cared about writing Desktop apps before Electron came along, there's basically zero money in it, and it's massively expensive, both in terms of actual dev time per feature (easily 10x…
Here's the thing. You know what the alternative to all of the JS that's been written? If your answer is "Keep writing more JS," then you are on another planet. The answer is, "We have fucked ourselves as an ecosystem by permitting a monoculture to flourish, especially one which prides itself on worship of bad languages, bloated runtimes, convoluted abstractions, and general fuckery." Nobody in the last ~20 years has…
Win32, Java, MacOS, et al lost because there were such strong standards for doing things the One True Way that competing standards couldn't flourish and the APIs stagnated.
In JavaScript, a new framework comes out every year and goes straight at the throat of the old one. The reason there is churn is because these new frameworks are actually solving problems better than the old ones, and because of the LACK of a monoculture developers will actually switch to them. Which in turn is why framework designers are drawn to it, which in turn leads to more new frameworks.
Is iOS solving problems better today than they were last year? Or in 2015? Because JavaScript is solving problems way better this year than last.
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That's nonsense . Desktop apps have been frequently released since forever. The underlying issue here is that Electron reduces the barrier to entry for cross-platform development . That is, it's cheaper to build a single cross-platform application in Electron than it is to build two or three native applications, and you can re-use your existing web experience. I can completely understand why companies might choose th…
What you call "trade-offs" appears to me to be developers externalizing their costs onto users. There are costs to developing desktop applications and developers don't want to pay them, so they make users pay for them in wasted hardware dollars, bandwidth, RAM, battery life, and poor integration.
People complaining about electron are the same type than the ones that used to say : - why are people writing this stuff in C. It's so slow and you don't have as much control on memory. Write it in Assembly. - why are people writing this stuff in Java. It's so slow and you don't have as much control on memory. Write it in C. - why are people writing this stuff in Python. It's so slow and you don't have as much contro…
But 160MB for a chat app? That's insane.
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Some engineers take exception with software developers using term, given that the disciplines are somewhat different.
As computer programmer in the web field, I find it awfully pretentious when web developers or any other programmers call themselves engineers when they are not legally licensed engineers.
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I can't speak for large companies trying to make the call on Electron versus multiple OS-specific apps, but for indie devs this is absolutely critical. Imagine being a small shop of 1 person (or even 5) and having to learn desktop programming languages, conventions, and native APIs for the web, Mac, Windows, and Linux. Then on top of that to develop and maintain a product that moves at the pace of customer feedback.…
Thanks for your insight. The part that confuses me as a non-native developer is the folks in this thread who seem to be implying that there are only marginal amounts of additional time needed to release cross platform, fully native apps.
I think the implication is as much that developers who label themselves like you have as "non-native" or "JS" or "web" developers don't have the perspective to make an informed decision on the matter.
Many of the rest of us know how to build React SPAs (and have been doing it long enough to have used Angular 1, Backbone, Sproutcore, ...) but "JS + Framework of the Week" is just one of the many tools we could turn to when building a UI. Many of us have also used cross-platform native libraries like QT or GTK, or platform-specific toolkits like Cocoa or .NET.
Basically, if the only tool you have is a hammer... it might be time to learn to use some new tools.
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> ... Electron applications are shite in comparison with proper native applications. Is that true from a user's perspective? The average user I know would not have the idea that Slack is somehow inherently worse than say MS Word or any other truly native app they use everyday. What would Slack gain by integrating better with my Mac? Slack starts up too fast for me to read the little quotation (penultimate Macbook Pro…
The electron apps I've seen don't really have much UI. As soon as you build an app with some complexity it will start being a problem. As a native Mac developer I can drop in things like a predicate editor for defining filters or queries. They come with Cocoa. I can put in sophisticated table views and tree views. I can connect all of this easily to core data which loads from a database objects on demand without any…
Well, VSCode certainly seems to contradict this.
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> Electron applications are shite in comparison with proper native applications. They fail to integrate with the host platform, they are slow, they hog memory and drink power. Are they though? The two applications that use the most energy on my Mac - by far - are Steam and Skype. Steam still has trouble with HiDPI and freezes when performing various UI interactions. The number of problems with Skype are uncountable.…
You need to compare apples to apples: The right benchmark for VSCode is not Visual Studio, but Notepad++ (5.9MB on my system right now).
I don't care about the difference of 175mb of ram between the 2 as one of them (atom) is infinitely more useful for me than the other (notepad++)
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We use Java because Python proved to be too slow.
Java also has JavaFX, which comes with an embedded Webkit browser. I can create my UI with React, or any other HTML/CSS/JS library, and make it interact with code written in Java, Scala, Groovy, Clojure, Kotlin, Ceylon, Frege, etc. very easily. I think this provides all the benefits of Electron, but is even more flexible and powerful.
Your list of 7 JVM languages (both here and in your earlier comment on this submission) seems to be from most widely used to least. Yet in your HN comment from 2 days ago at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14068664 you ordered that list differently, i.e. "Java, Scala, Clojure, Groovy, Kotlin, Ceylon, Frege, etc". Have you changed your mind about the relative adoption of Clojure and Apache Groovy in the last two days?
Here's the thing. You know what the alternative to all of these Electron apps coming out is? If your answer is "A native Cocoa/WPF app", you are on another planet, the answer is, "It wouldn't exist at all". Nobody in the last 5-10 years cared about writing Desktop apps before Electron came along, there's basically zero money in it, and it's massively expensive, both in terms of actual dev time per feature (easily 10x…
What planet are you on? I've been using great native apps since forever. I don't know what it is but there is a certain segment of the computer user population who don't seem to notice that awesome native apps exists for all sorts of stuff. "actual dev time per feature (easily 10x the cost)" Yeah seriously what PLANET ARE YOU ON!!! I can make native app functionality in a fraction of the time it takes to do it in a h…
Why is Electron and similar so popular then, if it's easier to build native? Please don't say "because shitty hipsters".