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Electron is flash for the desktop (2016)

josephg.com

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Re: Electron is flash for the desktop (2016)

#441

Post by goatlover »

lerpa wrote: post #420
goatlover wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Java isn't new and shiny anymore. Having been around for the great Java hype of the 90s, it's crazy that Javascript has now replaced it. Nobody would have predicted that back then.

Javascript, Java, it's all the same after all ducks

I really hate Netscape & Sun for causing that confusion, and making Javascript look like Java on the surface, particularly as it obscured the prototypal model of JS and made anonymous functions clunky until the arrow functions of ES6. But it was good marketing.

Re: Electron is flash for the desktop (2016)

#442

Post by spdionis »

anaisbetts wrote: post #74

Here's the thing. You know what the alternative to all of these Electron apps coming out is? If your answer is "A native Cocoa/WPF app", you are on another planet, the answer is, "It wouldn't exist at all". Nobody in the last 5-10 years cared about writing Desktop apps before Electron came along, there's basically zero money in it, and it's massively expensive, both in terms of actual dev time per feature (easily 10x…

> finding specialist developers who know these dated technologies

It's crazy to think that developing something native on Desktop using the default stack of the operating system means using "dated technologies".

Re: Electron is flash for the desktop (2016)

#443

Post by gant »

frik wrote: post #386
newhere420 wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Electron applications are shite in comparison with proper native applications. They fail to integrate with the host platform, they are slow, they hog memory and drink power. Are they though? The two applications that use the most energy on my Mac - by far - are Steam and Skype. Steam still has trouble with HiDPI and freezes when performing various UI interactions. The number of problems with Skype are uncountable.…

Steam always used a HTML renderer, even in its 2006 first incarnation. Nowadays it uses the same CEF (chrome library) as electron uses. So Steam was one of the first "Electron" apps. A very first one was Windows Explorer as of Shell update that came with Internet Explorer for Windows 95 (included by default in Win98). All the sidebars of Explorer were HTML based.

No, VGUI is not HTML.

Here's a fun one. Start Steam with `-dev` and hit F7. Widget factory VGUI edition!

Oh also, https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/VGUI_Documentation

Re: Electron is flash for the desktop (2016)

#444

Post by grinich »

newhere420 wrote: post #368
matthewmacleod wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's nonsense . Desktop apps have been frequently released since forever. The underlying issue here is that Electron reduces the barrier to entry for cross-platform development . That is, it's cheaper to build a single cross-platform application in Electron than it is to build two or three native applications, and you can re-use your existing web experience. I can completely understand why companies might choose th…

> Electron applications are shite in comparison with proper native applications. They fail to integrate with the host platform, they are slow, they hog memory and drink power. Are they though? The two applications that use the most energy on my Mac - by far - are Steam and Skype. Steam still has trouble with HiDPI and freezes when performing various UI interactions. The number of problems with Skype are uncountable.…

Another one for your list: Nylas Mail.

We straight up would have not shipped it without Electron and the CPU it uses to sync is on-par with apps like Apple Mail & Thunderbird.

Re: Electron is flash for the desktop (2016)

#445

Post by coldtea »

sametmax wrote: post #159
wickedlogic wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. You just described modern computing.

Computing for ever. We use C to avoid writing assembly. Use Java to avoid writing C. Use Python to avoid writing Java. The world is asking for more and more software, and the resources to provide it are not following so people are taking shortcuts. Want something better ? Someone has to pay for it.

>Computing for ever. We use C to avoid writing assembly. Use Java to avoid writing C. Use Python to avoid writing Java.

Yeah, but until Electron and they like, we seldom shipped desktop apps in anything than C, C++, Delphi etc even after all those decades. Which are all as close to the metal as can be. And in fact C/C++ can be as fast, or even faster than hand-rolled assembly most of the time (with few exception), so the whole premise is moot.

The few Java desktop apps that were around, people used to hate as memory hogs.

Re: Electron is flash for the desktop (2016)

#446

Post by MarkMc »

smokeyj wrote: post #403

There's two kinds of developers. Dorks who care about programming, and programmers who care about creating deliverable value. What do consumers think about electron apps? That's all that matters. Consumers don't know what the heck electron is, only that their apps work seamlessly across platforms. The only people who complain about electron apps are dorks who have an axe to grind with web developers. I'd rather have…

I completely agree with the content of your message, just wish you had used a word less derogatory than 'dorks'

Re: Electron is flash for the desktop (2016)

#447

Post by Touche »

jernfrost wrote: post #396
Touche wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They fail to integrate with the host platform Just as a counter-point, because native app fans often make this point as though it is universally recognized to be a good thing. I don't want apps to integrate with the host platform. The host platform is not the thing I care about. I use several host platforms in different contexts (I have work and home computers and a smartphone, they all run different OSes) and I wo…

1) Why use several host platforms if the platform makes no difference to you? 2) If you know a platform then you should have no problems knowing how to use it. It would be ridiculous to have an app from Windows behave exactly the same in Mac OS just because you don't want to remember the difference. You don't want minimize and maximize buttons put on the opposite side of all other mac apps because that is how it is o…

> 1) Why use several host platforms if the platform makes no difference to you?

I don't, I use The Web for 90% of all things I use on a computer. A Chromebook is one of the computers I use the most when not working for precisely this reason.

> Why else do you think people make a big point of an app being native Cocoa? It is because they know it sells better, because they know customers want the native well integrated experience.

I think you're mistaken, the fact that so many company are switching to Electron is evidence that it doesn't sell better.

Re: Electron is flash for the desktop (2016)

#448

Post by smitherfield »

frik wrote: post #386
newhere420 wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Electron applications are shite in comparison with proper native applications. They fail to integrate with the host platform, they are slow, they hog memory and drink power. Are they though? The two applications that use the most energy on my Mac - by far - are Steam and Skype. Steam still has trouble with HiDPI and freezes when performing various UI interactions. The number of problems with Skype are uncountable.…

Steam always used a HTML renderer, even in its 2006 first incarnation. Nowadays it uses the same CEF (chrome library) as electron uses. So Steam was one of the first "Electron" apps. A very first one was Windows Explorer as of Shell update that came with Internet Explorer for Windows 95 (included by default in Win98). All the sidebars of Explorer were HTML based.

>A very first one was Windows Explorer as of Shell update that came with Internet Explorer for Windows 95 (included by default in Win98). All the sidebars of Explorer were HTML based.

That's a stretch; X/SG/HTML user interface APIs are not the same as a whole browser with Javascript VM, full networking and security stack, full-featured/standards-compliant (X)HTML/CSS rendering engine plus support for legacy features, UI assets, multimedia support, sandboxing, resource caching/persistence, and so on.

Re: Electron is flash for the desktop (2016)

#449

Post by philliphaydon »

newhere420 wrote: post #368
matthewmacleod wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's nonsense . Desktop apps have been frequently released since forever. The underlying issue here is that Electron reduces the barrier to entry for cross-platform development . That is, it's cheaper to build a single cross-platform application in Electron than it is to build two or three native applications, and you can re-use your existing web experience. I can completely understand why companies might choose th…

> Electron applications are shite in comparison with proper native applications. They fail to integrate with the host platform, they are slow, they hog memory and drink power. Are they though? The two applications that use the most energy on my Mac - by far - are Steam and Skype. Steam still has trouble with HiDPI and freezes when performing various UI interactions. The number of problems with Skype are uncountable.…

http://imgur.com/a/Ofyei

Chrome kills me. :(

Re: Electron is flash for the desktop (2016)

#450

Post by ascagnel_ »

discreditable wrote: post #125

Would it make more sense to distribute electron as a dependency and allow apps to use it? That way, instead of 10 apps requiring 10 different electrons we have 10 apps that can use a pre-installed electron.

How does an app bundling Electron in that way differ from an app using a native embedded browser widget (other than that it can run in Chrome vs. Edge/Safari/etc.)?
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