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Twitter allegedly deleting negative tweets about United Airlines incident

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Re: Twitter allegedly deleting negative tweets about United Airlines incident

#161

What's really bad is that technically this flight wasn't overbooked at all. United decided to fly one of their crews when the plane was already booked to capacity and had paying passengers 'voluntarily' (what a funny way to use that word) give up their seats so they could move their employees around. It's a totally ridiculous situation and their media messaging doesn't help at all.

Are you sure it wasn't also overbooked?

They pulled passengers to fly crew, but that doesn't mean it wasn't overbooked.

Re: Twitter allegedly deleting negative tweets about United Airlines incident

#162

> Do you think rich people on their own jets get TSA patdowns the same way? No. What we are creating is a state of freedom for the rich, and compliant abuse for the majority of the citizens. Rich people aren't going to hijack their own jet and kill themselves in the name of Allah.

Realistically speaking, neither are the passengers on airliners. The vanishingly small fraction of people that do want to do this is probably equally distributed amongst the rich and the poor, the real difference is that the rich will simply fund a bunch of poor people to do the deed for them (and will still enjoy their private jets).

And since we now have at least one example of a pilot executing a powered descent into terrain it would seem to me that no class of people is exempt from defects like these. Only passengers are in position where they are much less likely/able to do damage assuming the cockpit door is solid.

Re: Twitter allegedly deleting negative tweets about United Airlines incident

#163
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, you can set up your own server and "content", but it ain't gunna be like Twitter, because that's where the people are. Network effects make it very hard to launch a competitor Twitter is an incredibly important communication medium; as an example, it almost certainly was instrumental in electing Trump to the presidency. Just because it's privately owned doesn't mean we should be content to have it run like a pe…

Twitter is an incredibly important communication medium Perhaps, but that's not an inherent property of twitter itself, it just happens that people are there now, but the same could be said about Digg 6 years ago, or myspace 12 years ago or ICQ 20 years ago, people move around the web as trends come and go. Maybe your competitor will be the next big one, but you're not entitled to a network effect just because you do…

Nah, none of those networks were anywhere near as influential as Twitter is now. Many reporters basically live on Twitter; it's at the center our media world.

I don't believe in the idea of "entitled to" or not "entitled to" as absolute moral truths. We come up with a set of rules as a society and entitlements come from those rules.

It's perfectly reasonable to imagine various combinations of rules and try to guess which combination will give us the society we like most.

One possible rule is "private companies should be able to do whatever they want under all circumstances," which is what you and several others seem to be arguing here. I'm sympathetic to that viewpoint in the small, but once corporate entities reach a certain scale and omnipresence, I think it ceases to be reasonable -- in the limit as a corporate entity grows large and powerful, it becomes a government. As it approaches that limit, it should be similarly constrained.

Let me give you an example that will probably make you agree with me. Let's say Twitter decides -- since, hey, it's a private entity and can do whatever it wants with its product -- to delete any accounts that some machine-learning algorithm has identified as belonging to racial group X.

Cool or nah?

Re: Twitter allegedly deleting negative tweets about United Airlines incident

#164
post #142

Surprised that people here are taking this at face value. Why would Twitter remove these tweets from random users while leaving the vast majority of negative tweets in place? No proof has been given. Indeed, this Jay Beecher's allegedly deleted tweet is visible as far as I can tell: https://mobile.twitter.com/dancow/status/851808188567388161 edit: To be fair, Beecher says that my tweet refers to tweets he sent out af…

Surprised that people here are taking this at face value.

Really?

Re: Twitter allegedly deleting negative tweets about United Airlines incident

#165

What's really bad is that technically this flight wasn't overbooked at all. United decided to fly one of their crews when the plane was already booked to capacity and had paying passengers 'voluntarily' (what a funny way to use that word) give up their seats so they could move their employees around. It's a totally ridiculous situation and their media messaging doesn't help at all.

Are you sure it wasn't also overbooked? They pulled passengers to fly crew, but that doesn't mean it wasn't overbooked.

They claimed it was overbooked but that has not been substantiated with any evidence other than the company making that claim and using it to pre-empt those passengers in favor of their dead-headers. The proof that they are bullshitting is that the passengers were already on board when suddenly the plane was declared overbooked.

Which to me sounds like UA using an excuse to bump passengers off a flight they are already confirmed on in order to fix some kind of crew scheduling issue.

Re: Twitter allegedly deleting negative tweets about United Airlines incident

#167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure it wasn't also overbooked? They pulled passengers to fly crew, but that doesn't mean it wasn't overbooked.

They claimed it was overbooked but that has not been substantiated with any evidence other than the company making that claim and using it to pre-empt those passengers in favor of their dead-headers. The proof that they are bullshitting is that the passengers were already on board when suddenly the plane was declared overbooked. Which to me sounds like UA using an excuse to bump passengers off a flight they are alrea…

Sure I agree it is just a claim. But they overbook most flights, so it isn't really hard to believe.

They could have paid some other passengers already to not board, prior to deciding that they wanted to fly the crew and needing to pull more passengers.

That leaves the overbooking claim as misdirection, which isn't any better than a lie that they were overbooked, but it's a different situation.

(sorry about the edit crosstalk)

Re: Twitter allegedly deleting negative tweets about United Airlines incident

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wonderful, so Twitter is now a tool for corporate propaganda, Google is providing Censorship-as-a-Service API, Facebook is removing links classified as "Fake News(tm)", Reddit is deleting whatever mods don't agree with etc. This was inevitable. All the above-mentioned services are funded - in large part - by ads. When it came to choosing between serving the users vs. the advertisers the latter would always win in t…

> What's needed is some sort of "public" space on the internet that's not controlled by corporate (and increasingly advertising) interests. Perhaps the federal government could find a budget every year to fund a website that provides exactly this, and that those managing it are not employees of the government.

A USFED-sponsored "public" space would likely end up US-centric and also would have to pander to opinions and whims of the USGOV. Not a good Twitter/FB/Reddit replacement for international users.

The first thought I had was that maybe UN should run something like this, but still, there's an issue that affects us regardless of who is running the service - social media are heavily network-effect-dependent. Unless you're willing to literally have a law against using privately-owned social media and forcing people into government-provided services, any attempt of building such a service will likely fail simply because Twitter, FB and Reddit are already there, and regular people won't have any strong incentive to jump ship.

Re: Twitter allegedly deleting negative tweets about United Airlines incident

#169

I'll definitely not be flying United or Delta ever again after this incident. Over-selling spaces on a plane is a scummy practice and shokldn't be allowed. When someone needs to cancel they still pocket the change fee or keep tne entire fee if they miss the flight. Seems like borderline fraud.

Overbooking is an extremely common practice. In fact, I don't know of a single airline that doesn't overbook. On a plane with hundreds of seats you almost always get cancellations; the small amount of times you don't, you almost always get people volunteering to be pushed to the next flight in exchange for money (I've done it myself a few times as I don't mind working in airports). Cases like these are exceedingly ra…

As with you, I'm not opposed to overbooking, but:

1) Overbooking should be handled at the gate.

2) I'd like to see an incredibly high legal ceiling for compensating passengers who voluntarily reschedule. $800 (4x the ticket price) or we'll drag some of you out of the plane is ridiculous. And let's not forget that the ceiling is only a legal limitation; it was United's discretion to stop the bidding at the legal ceiling and use force.

Re: Twitter allegedly deleting negative tweets about United Airlines incident

#170
post #128
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, you can set up your own server and "content", but it ain't gunna be like Twitter, because that's where the people are. Network effects make it very hard to launch a competitor Twitter is an incredibly important communication medium; as an example, it almost certainly was instrumental in electing Trump to the presidency. Just because it's privately owned doesn't mean we should be content to have it run like a pe…

How about you spend billions of dollars growing a network, and I tell you what to do with it? (That being said, IMHO, this is truly shortsighted means to collect a couple of bucks today, and a good way to diminish the value of the network over the long term.)

I don't think it's unreasonable to compel companies to behave in certain ways using the law, especially very large and influential companies.

Competition & the market is all well and good, but it's not a panacea. It's very easy to reach a "local minimum" where there are globally bad things happened that cannot be remedied by competition, because it's too expensive/hard/impossible for a competitor to come into existence.

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