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Atmospheric CO2 levels accelerate upwards

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Re: Atmospheric CO2 levels accelerate upwards

#371

Post by CalRobert »

rimliu wrote: post #325
CalRobert wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that it takes 10,000 calories of feed to make 1,000 calories of beef, you're still talking about a massive reduction in the number of vegetation calories produced.

Is it calories or mass? I.e. cow eats 10kg of grass to produce 1kg of beef, we eat 10kg of beaf to gain 1kg of weight? And in any case it does not really answer the question.

My recollection is of calories but I cannot find a source for that right now. Regardless, my point was that if you grow plants to feed to cattle to feed to humans you are taking more resources than if you grow plants to feed to humans. However, it is complex - it depends a lot on the landscape.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/feastandfamine/2013/12/livest...

Re: Atmospheric CO2 levels accelerate upwards

#372

Post by mirimir »

specialist wrote: post #210
delegate wrote: post #145

The message I"m getting is not that I have to prepare for something or change energy sources , it's that "our lifestyle is killing the planet much faster than we thought". CO2 levels is just one of a myriad of indicators that are off the scale now. By lifestyle I mean supermarkets and restaurants and iPhones and planes ... all the stuff that we're so proud of as a society. Winning, getting ahead, being number one, ou…

"Ultimately it is the lack of spirituality in people that's killing the planet." Bad accounting is killing our planet. Neglecting important parts of the balance sheet creates perverse incentives.

I get that externalities are the key problem. That plus the present impossibility of coherent global action against a global problem.

But as much as I think the human species will win a Darwin award, there's really zero risk of "killing our planet". I mean, one could sterilize the entire surface of the Earth, and the Archaea would hardly notice. They extend kilometers below the surface.

Re: Atmospheric CO2 levels accelerate upwards

#373

Post by self_assembly »

adrianN wrote: post #272
imgabe wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trade-off: Humanity as a species ends. Which gadget do you feel is worth that?

Humanity as a species won't end due to climate change. That's a ridiculous assertion. Full scale nuclear war probably couldn't wipe us out completely. Global warming can't either. Billions might die, but humanity will survive almost certainly.

The assertion that climate change will result in human extinction is of course not literally true. But given our current path it is not a ridiculous hyperbole. The consequences we are talking about is the inability to grow food in much of the southwest United States, Mediterranean regions and large areas of mainland China. Not to mention the collapse of a healthy ocean ecosystem, storm variability, etc... This really is an event that will alter the way of life of everyone on Earth and kill a whole bunch in the process. It is not at all ridiculous to treat this as the existential crisis it is.

Re: Atmospheric CO2 levels accelerate upwards

#374

Post by jacquesm »

Reason077 wrote: post #361
jacquesm wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vehicles are increasingly powered by coal plants. Electric batteries don't power anything, they're best compared to empty buckets.

Vehicles are increasingly being powered by renewables and efficient combined-cycle gas turbines. Coal's share of electricity production is declining or being phased out almost everywhere.

Worldwide the share of coal in energy production is at 40% and the United States it has dropped from 56% to 40%.

Coal still produces 40% of every KWh consumed with Nuclear making up a fair portion of the remainder.

Renewables are at 20% and (fortunately) rising sharply but for the moment fossil energy sources are by far the bulk of the energy consumed by electric vehicles.

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EG.ELC.COAL.ZS

Re: Atmospheric CO2 levels accelerate upwards

#375

Post by mirimir »

adrianN wrote: post #346
mikelyons wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I get what you're saying, the "fact" of the matter is if you think about it long and hard with an open mind you eventually discover that all belief are false and that there is no gradient of falsehood. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FtVLnmuJzg

I believe that your belief that all beliefs are false and that there is no gradient to the falsehood is false

There is no true or false, only unasking questions ;)

Re: Atmospheric CO2 levels accelerate upwards

#376

Post by pjc50 »

jsmthrowaway wrote: post #135
pjc50 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting set of values there. I've got to say that being in a country where certain classes of advertising are forbidden and the rest is subject to (pretty minimal) accuracy regulation feels like it makes me freer and happier rather than the other way round. Cigarettes and prescription drugs may not be advertised in the UK.

I'd actually prefer that, too. Especially prescription medications: there have been awful studies about correlations between patients asking their doctor (as the ads say) and getting that specific Rx even when unnecessary. I also don't know how to get there constitutionally without somehow differentiating advertising from speech (the Court has declined every opportunity, which should be obvious from the term of art "…

I see where you're coming from on this, but I think constitutional originalism and the alleged legal purity of the Supreme Court has long been compromised - as can be seen by the extent of the fighting over who gets nominated to the Supreme Court.

See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posadas_de_Puerto_Rico_Associa... (I don't really know US constitutional law, but this is linked on wikipedia!) - arguing that advertising can be restricted in the US under some circumstances.

(The extent of US TV censorship should also be considered here, along with the great "community standards" fight over internet censorship way back in the Clinton era)

Re: Atmospheric CO2 levels accelerate upwards

#377

Post by zebrafish »

d_theorist wrote: post #279
mikelyons wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't trees the ultimate carbon-capture devices? They are solar powered, turn co2 into building materials, and require very little maintenance.

Not really. There's something called the "Forest Carbon Cycle". Forests do not statically capture carbon long term. They are constantly taking carbon in but also releasing it through the death of trees and through the soil. Trees can temporarily capture carbon, but ultimately it will be released again unless they are burned. They also take up a lot of space. [EDIT] I should probably clarify that I have nothing agains…

I've been thinking about economical carbon sequestration uses for the heliostat molten salt reactors. Desalinate sea water (sell fresh water) -> power a generator with steam (sell excess energy) -> grow trees in the desert (sell the trees to a mill) -> go back to start.

Re: Atmospheric CO2 levels accelerate upwards

#378

Post by Neliquat »

test001only wrote: post #196
demonshalo wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> By lifestyle I mean supermarkets and restaurants and iPhones and planes ... all the stuff that we're so proud of as a society. Winning, getting ahead, being number one, outcompeting, etc. All those ego-centric values that are the basis of our socio-economic systems - focused on disconnecting the `self` from `other` - are wrong on a fundamental level. By 'spirituality' I mean the deep realisation of the larger conte…

Not to take anything away from the impressive technological advancement we have made, but that is certainly not the reason that we can now talk about spirituality. Spirituality and related philosophy has been existing long before any of this existed. Ironically, lot of people once they have spiritual realization, move to lifestyle which you would consider "poor living standards".

Sure you could talk then, but with the brightest in the world from your bathroom in slippers? No, technology has made it available. Do you know why the printing pressvwas a big deal? Not being able to talk about spirituality with an audience.

Re: Atmospheric CO2 levels accelerate upwards

#379

Post by adrianN »

self_assembly wrote: post #373
adrianN wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Humanity as a species won't end due to climate change. That's a ridiculous assertion. Full scale nuclear war probably couldn't wipe us out completely. Global warming can't either. Billions might die, but humanity will survive almost certainly.

The assertion that climate change will result in human extinction is of course not literally true. But given our current path it is not a ridiculous hyperbole. The consequences we are talking about is the inability to grow food in much of the southwest United States, Mediterranean regions and large areas of mainland China. Not to mention the collapse of a healthy ocean ecosystem, storm variability, etc... This really…

I agree that global warming is one of the biggest threats we face in the immediate future. I just dislike pointless hyperbole. The likely consequences are scary enough without having to exaggerate them. If we want honest discussions we need truth, not hyperbole.

Re: Atmospheric CO2 levels accelerate upwards

#380

Post by openasocket »

virmundi wrote: post #359
tonyedgecombe wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet the reality is self-actualisation / spirituality are as out of reach for many now as they were years ago when we were 'poorer'.

Self-actualization and spirituality seldom go hand in hand with wealth. Poor people have improved spirituality than wealthier people. Wealth draws your focus away from those things onto pleasures like sleeping around, or owning the latest i-device because it's the latest. Hence Jesus saying it's easier to thread a fishing line through a needle than for a wealthy person to find the Kingdom of Heaven.

> Hence Jesus saying it's easier to thread a fishing line through a needle

Nit: it's thread a camel through the eye of the needle, not fishing line

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