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Atmospheric CO2 levels accelerate upwards

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Re: Atmospheric CO2 levels accelerate upwards

#361

Post by Reason077 »

jacquesm wrote: post #290
gnode wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree that it isn't happening. Solar PV capacity is growing rapidly. Vehicles are increasingly powered by electric batteries. These things were all prohibitively expensive for most people in Western countries, but their declining cost has made them more affordable and more used.

Vehicles are increasingly powered by coal plants. Electric batteries don't power anything, they're best compared to empty buckets.

Vehicles are increasingly being powered by renewables and efficient combined-cycle gas turbines.

Coal's share of electricity production is declining or being phased out almost everywhere.

Re: Atmospheric CO2 levels accelerate upwards

#362

Post by SamPhillips »

Elected officials follow public opinion, and large-scale protest is an effective way to demonstrate and shape opinion. Join other technologists at the Climate March in 2 weeks (April 29). https://techsector.peoplesclimate.org/

Something needs to change, we're on the wrong track, and now is the time for you to take action (plus, meet nice people!).

Re: Atmospheric CO2 levels accelerate upwards

#363

Post by self_assembly »

adrianN wrote: post #227
qplex wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except here what you label as "pseudo spiritual" is actually the more realistic, scientific and moral way of seeing things. The iPhones and Supermarkets are of the dream reality. A world without consequences, where the Foxconn Factory Workers (or the mines of Congo) do not exist.

Foxconn factory workers have a lower suicide rate than the average Chinese.

Yea and the slaves in the kitchen were happier then the ones in the field. So what? To try and justify the horrible treatment of these people so that we can feel better about having an iphone that is a few hundred dollars cheaper is absurd.

Re: Atmospheric CO2 levels accelerate upwards

#364

Post by torrent-of-ions »

demonshalo wrote: post #324
torrent-of-ions wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem with the green movement as a whole is that they do not understand economics or trade-offs. Yes, they do. It's just that destroying the planet and letting the future generations suffer for a more comfortable and convenient life right now is not a trade that they are willing to make.

> letting the future generations suffer... source?

Soil depletion: http://news.berkeley.edu/2015/05/07/soil-depletion-human-sec...

Groundwater depletion: https://water.usgs.gov/edu/gwdepletion.html

Antibiotic resistance: https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg23231044-000-antibiot...

Shall I go on?

Re: Atmospheric CO2 levels accelerate upwards

#365

Post by program_whiz »

youdontknowtho wrote: post #238
qplex wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except here what you label as "pseudo spiritual" is actually the more realistic, scientific and moral way of seeing things. The iPhones and Supermarkets are of the dream reality. A world without consequences, where the Foxconn Factory Workers (or the mines of Congo) do not exist.

The dream reality. I'll bite. What's the dream reality?

Seems like there's a sub-thread going on in this discussion relating to zen/buddhism/enlightenment. Dream reality or "Maya" is the reality of concepts and ego. "Reality" is the real tangible experience of consciousness. Everything else is layered on top of that as projection or thought. However, I can tell you having had some experience in this area that using these doctrines to create a "good and evil" but just using more subtle language is also just another concept and layer (supermarkets are just as real and part of reality as anything else). The real goal is to see the perfection of things exactly as they are, and that also doesn't mean you don't have the potential to change it (because human growth and change is also part of it).

Re: Atmospheric CO2 levels accelerate upwards

#366

Post by Const-me »

MagnumOpus wrote: post #259
Const-me wrote: post #97

Russians fail to manage their swamps and forests. They burn regularly. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Russian_wildfires https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Russian_wildfires I bet that contributed a lot to the 2010-s CO2.

That's not from sequestered carbon, so over a decade it is probably zero net CO2 contribution - forests grow and sequester carbon, then they burn and release it, rinse, repeat. Now, the methane released from underneath thawing permafrost - that's actually dangerous - but there's not much that can be done to manage that to my knowledge...

Large parts of the territory affected by the fires were once peat bogs:

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Dan_Hammarlund/publicat...

The carbon in those was sequestered; under normal circumstances, it would remain buried for millennia.

Re: Atmospheric CO2 levels accelerate upwards

#367

Post by tombone12 »

mirimir wrote: post #297
joelthelion wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's true, but it's also not very relevant. Many asteroids and barren planets are also going to be fine, but I don't think anyone cares about that. People care about the future of human civilization, which is very much at risk.

Yes, but that's very different from "killing the planet". If what you care about is the future of human civilization, then that's what you ought to be talking about. Bringing up "killing the planet" just invites eye rolls. Personally, I care more about the future of consciousness than about the future of humanity, per se .

There is probably intelligent conscious life out there in the universe, and considering the mass extinction we are setting up right now it might be best to leave it alone. So keep consuming, burn that coal and save the aliens (from us)!

Re: Atmospheric CO2 levels accelerate upwards

#368

Post by PeterisP »

jbattle wrote: post #355
PeterisP wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd obviously need to involve the first world countries for a meaningful impact on consumption. Please name a single first world nation-state that would be either submerged under water or have their population decimated (i.e. an expected casualty rate of 10%). I believe that even Netherlands would stay above water by continued investment and extension of their current water control practices. For the first world, a…

Do you really think the first world it going to just stand by and watch 100's of millions of people in places like Bangladesh just die? No - the little bit of upset the west is feeling absorbing Syrian refugees should be a wake-up call that we can't just wall ourselves off from other peoples' problems.

Yes, I believe that a consequence of whatever "upset the west is feeling absorbing Syrian refugees" will be that the west will not be willing to repeat that and will handle the next major source of refugees in a much more isolationist manner.

Governments all over the first world are clearly more resistant to accepting immigrants than a few years ago.

One can definitely argue that for moral reasons we shouldn't wall ourselves off from other peoples problems, but the first world certainly does have the capacity to try and it seems that it also has the political desire to do so. If you ignore the words of major governments but look at their actions, we are seeing investments in capabilities to do just that, both military capabilities and economic ones - as automation replaces offshoring, the first world is now agains slowly getting less dependant on third world labor.

Re: Atmospheric CO2 levels accelerate upwards

#369

Post by Reason077 »

uranian wrote: post #171
delegate wrote: post #145

The message I"m getting is not that I have to prepare for something or change energy sources , it's that "our lifestyle is killing the planet much faster than we thought". CO2 levels is just one of a myriad of indicators that are off the scale now. By lifestyle I mean supermarkets and restaurants and iPhones and planes ... all the stuff that we're so proud of as a society. Winning, getting ahead, being number one, ou…

Its the "economy" and the lack of vision and vigor of politicians to change it. As long as our policies and laws are still in favor of the economy we are doomed.

The economy and the environment are not diametrically opposed. Policies in favour of one do not have to contradict the other.

Efficient, sustainable energy and transport will bring huge economic benefits to countries that are net fossil-fuel consumers.

Re: Atmospheric CO2 levels accelerate upwards

#370

Post by goatlover »

PeterisP wrote: post #316
Jare wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we are making one of the BEST trade-offs humanity has ever seen Either you believe that we are not heading to a near extinction-level event, that we will prevent it before it happens, or that such an event is a fair price to pay for enjoying a century of computers and iphones. The first option seems blind, the second baseless optimism, and the 3rd... I don't really know what to say. Is there a 4th?

Do you believe that we are heading to near extinction-level event? As far as I have seen, even the most extreme predictions of climate change consequences don't come close to that. I have seen predictions expecting mass forced migrations, decrease in sustainable population, etc; but unless you're literally expecting the vast majority of the worldwide population to die, it's not an extinction-level event, it's not nea…

Maybe not, but since when did climate change become the only environmental concern? It's as if we can just curb our appetite for fossil fuel in time, we'll be okay. But there are other pressures on the biosphere that clean energy isn't going to alleviate.
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