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Atmospheric CO2 levels accelerate upwards

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Re: Atmospheric CO2 levels accelerate upwards

#231

Post by eru »

delegate wrote: post #145

The message I"m getting is not that I have to prepare for something or change energy sources , it's that "our lifestyle is killing the planet much faster than we thought". CO2 levels is just one of a myriad of indicators that are off the scale now. By lifestyle I mean supermarkets and restaurants and iPhones and planes ... all the stuff that we're so proud of as a society. Winning, getting ahead, being number one, ou…

Why? We can just keep solving problems. If we really wanted to, we could be carbon neutral in a few years and even pay for carbon sequestration. (Basically, just run the whole global economy on nuclear for example.)

Not gonna happen, of course, because it's a huge and expensive undertaking---and there's no(t enough) political will nor even any consensus. But the problem is not our lifestyle per se, nor is competition.

Re: Atmospheric CO2 levels accelerate upwards

#232

Post by d_theorist »

I don't understand why more isn't done to implement large-scale carbon capture and storage technologies. There are quite well-understood and proven technologies to do this, but they don't seem to be on anybody's agenda.

Trying to bring down CO2 concentration by convincing people to give up cars, food and planes is obviously a losing strategy.

If we're serious about preventing climate change we're going to have to actively remove carbon from the atmosphere. But nobody seems interested.

Re: Atmospheric CO2 levels accelerate upwards

#233

Post by finchisko »

demonshalo wrote: post #182
delegate wrote: post #145

The message I"m getting is not that I have to prepare for something or change energy sources , it's that "our lifestyle is killing the planet much faster than we thought". CO2 levels is just one of a myriad of indicators that are off the scale now. By lifestyle I mean supermarkets and restaurants and iPhones and planes ... all the stuff that we're so proud of as a society. Winning, getting ahead, being number one, ou…

> By lifestyle I mean supermarkets and restaurants and iPhones and planes ... all the stuff that we're so proud of as a society. Winning, getting ahead, being number one, outcompeting, etc. All those ego-centric values that are the basis of our socio-economic systems - focused on disconnecting the `self` from `other` - are wrong on a fundamental level. By 'spirituality' I mean the deep realisation of the larger conte…

only very few people contribute to human progress. most of the population are selfish consumers.

Re: Atmospheric CO2 levels accelerate upwards

#234

Post by spangry »

7952 wrote: post #188
delegate wrote: post #145

The message I"m getting is not that I have to prepare for something or change energy sources , it's that "our lifestyle is killing the planet much faster than we thought". CO2 levels is just one of a myriad of indicators that are off the scale now. By lifestyle I mean supermarkets and restaurants and iPhones and planes ... all the stuff that we're so proud of as a society. Winning, getting ahead, being number one, ou…

More simplistically we have to care about things beyond our most immediate surroundings. The extent of that concern has always been something that people argue about, just look at how the left and right view "community" differently. But it is essentially a moral question more than a practical or scientific one. Making people aware of the ethical dimension of their actions is worthwile. It is just difficult to do that…

Or you can internalise costs that normally get externalised. For instance, the government could make people pay a fixed-fee (i.e. a tax) for every tonne of co2 they emit. You then just set the fee at a level commensurate with the total damage caused by emitting a tonne of co2 and then sit back and let people's natural self-interest do the rest of the work.

I think it's noble and commendable to act ethically, and promote ethical behaviour. However, I don't think "people acting ethically" is the thing we want to be relying on when we're trying to avoid self-extinction. By a large margin, people are usually selfish and will act in a self-interested manner, so it's probably safer to harness this particular aspect of humanity. I'm not saying it's pretty, but it sure beats self-extinction.

Re: Atmospheric CO2 levels accelerate upwards

#235

Post by RandyRanderson »

tempestn wrote: post #148
RandyRanderson wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you referring to the "competent" housing policies of the Libs that have made BC into the biggest housing bubble in the entire world ? I'm not sure the conservatives (ultra-right) or NDP could have done this simply because their bases would not let them (for different reasons). So because of this competence we're in a sitch such that we can't stop the housing boom for fear of an entire collapse of the BC economy?…

No, I'm not referring specifically to Liberal housing policies. I'm not aware of any aspects of the NDP platform that would improve the housing affordability problem in BC, but I'd be interested to know about them if they exist. Might make my choice even easier. Their website just calls for "strong action", but doesn't specify what it should be: https://www.bcndp.ca/housing-speculation As far as NDP policies I find q…

The housing policies are the only things that matter from an economic perspective and money is the only thing that matters. Just look at any BC economic statistics - I'm guessing ~80% of the economy at this point is tied directly or indirectly to real estate.

This situation mirrors the global warming debate: we are in a sitch such that if we fix things now it will be very painful and if not it will an an existential issue down the road. If human nature has taught me anything it's going to be the latter.

In regards to your hyphenated points:

- Haven't been following that. For public property it seems like the money always ends up going to some big donor's pocket. Have a look at the 403 or many of the other public-private partnership projects. It's almost always a terrible deal for taxpayers. It's funny - many complain about government being ineffective but not when those signing monopoly-supporting contracts.

- Have a look at some analysis online of the actual wages ride-sharing drivers make after they pay for capital costs associated with the cars, etc. I believe one generous article calculated about 2$/h for uber.

- Unless your day job is to analyze the effects of such changes you're not qualified to make that claim. Maybe the number is 16 maybe it's 2.05. Even with the most sophisticated models this would be very hard to estimate. I think we should tie MP salaries to mean wages. You'd see a nice bump to min wage every year!

You're getting too caught up in what they say. These are politicians... look at what they have done (eg the bubble).

Re: Atmospheric CO2 levels accelerate upwards

#236

Post by qplex »

adrianN wrote: post #227
qplex wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except here what you label as "pseudo spiritual" is actually the more realistic, scientific and moral way of seeing things. The iPhones and Supermarkets are of the dream reality. A world without consequences, where the Foxconn Factory Workers (or the mines of Congo) do not exist.

Foxconn factory workers have a lower suicide rate than the average Chinese.

Can an average Foxconn worker afford an iPhone?

Re: Atmospheric CO2 levels accelerate upwards

#237

Post by Cthulhu_ »

uranian wrote: post #171
delegate wrote: post #145

The message I"m getting is not that I have to prepare for something or change energy sources , it's that "our lifestyle is killing the planet much faster than we thought". CO2 levels is just one of a myriad of indicators that are off the scale now. By lifestyle I mean supermarkets and restaurants and iPhones and planes ... all the stuff that we're so proud of as a society. Winning, getting ahead, being number one, ou…

Its the "economy" and the lack of vision and vigor of politicians to change it. As long as our policies and laws are still in favor of the economy we are doomed.

Ecologically superior altneratives are in favor of the economy though, at least from the industry - think electric cars, alternative energy sources, nuclear fusion research, etc. A lot of those need to be encouraged or paid for by the governments though. They already discourage e.g. fossil fuel usage for consumers by raising high taxes for gasoline - where I live, taxes make up three quarters, if not more, of the price of gasoline.

Re: Atmospheric CO2 levels accelerate upwards

#238

Post by youdontknowtho »

qplex wrote: post #198
demonshalo wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> By lifestyle I mean supermarkets and restaurants and iPhones and planes ... all the stuff that we're so proud of as a society. Winning, getting ahead, being number one, outcompeting, etc. All those ego-centric values that are the basis of our socio-economic systems - focused on disconnecting the `self` from `other` - are wrong on a fundamental level. By 'spirituality' I mean the deep realisation of the larger conte…

Except here what you label as "pseudo spiritual" is actually the more realistic, scientific and moral way of seeing things. The iPhones and Supermarkets are of the dream reality. A world without consequences, where the Foxconn Factory Workers (or the mines of Congo) do not exist.

The dream reality.

I'll bite. What's the dream reality?

Re: Atmospheric CO2 levels accelerate upwards

#239

Post by eli_gottlieb »

stale2002 wrote: post #54
vesak wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Be constructive, be creative. Ok, solution time. Let's immediately ban everyone who denies that climate change is human made from all positions of power. That implies stripping them of both titles and wealth.

Why bother? The IPCC, which is the official authority on climate change, says that over the next 200 years sea levels will rise by a meter or 2. Damaging, for sure. Trillions of dollars in costs. But not exactly world ending. Thats the scientific consensus. I look at the official statistics that the scientists provide, and I go "meh". If I had the choice between magically stopping climate change forever, and stopping…

You should probably go look up the Anthropocene Mass Extinction and the concept of a food web. We're actually looking at the end of the world as we know it here.

Re: Atmospheric CO2 levels accelerate upwards

#240

Post by JackdawX »

pjc50 wrote: post #126
amarant wrote: post #95

We have to expand nuclear power. Many don't like it but at this point we have no other choice. Let solar drive the phasing out of nuclear reactors instead of coal power plants! Sadly in my country (Sweden) nuclear is not only taboo but it's illegal to perform research of the subject.. Laws passed by a severely misinformed "green" movement...

Too expensive, too slow. We're having this conversation with Hinkley Point C in the UK. It's going to get subsidised more than wind power and it's going to take a decade to build. If you start building reactors now, then in a decade you end up with a bunch of eternal liabilities that are more expensive than renewables+storage will likely be by then.

Most renewables are not reliable power sources, the wind blows when it blows. That is why a diverse power strategy is needed, including nuclear.

When you say the amount subsidised, what is your source, and what do you mean by 'more'? Do you mean more in total, or per kwh generated?

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