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Atmospheric CO2 levels accelerate upwards

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Re: Atmospheric CO2 levels accelerate upwards

#191

Post by kilotaras »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #166
ghouse wrote: post #10

It is less expensive (for society) to prevent the release of previously sequestered CO2 than it is to deal with the consequences of introducing the CO2 into the carbon cycle. Though since the costs of releasing sequestered CO2 are socialized, but the benefits are privatized, the US (at the federal level) continues to choose inaction.

So does, unfortunately, the rest of the world. With the recent anti-nuclear craze, the EU is sadly not stellar in this regard either. And all of this forgets about Africa, which continues to improve the living condition of its people and thus grow in energy demand. If there isn't green infrastructure ready to be used there, they'll go for the easiest thing, which means fossil fuels. And so do many individuals. I mean…

I have some hope that Africa can do what they did with telecommunications. Skip fossils to renewables.

Re: Atmospheric CO2 levels accelerate upwards

#192

Post by badminton1 »

rimliu wrote: post #156
badminton1 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In 1950 global population was 2.5 billion people, now 7.5. That's 3x in 67 years. Technological advances can help us increase the amount of people we can sustain, but eventually there is going to be a limit. The limit will not only be because of CO2. There are other situations that need to be managed. Population is increasing, and the lifestyle of individuals is rising, making each person have a larger cost on the en…

We are already past the peak child. Fish will no go anywhere, it will just be farmed more.

Not sure how you arrived at the conclusion but I disagree.

Ocean acidification from CO2 absorption, plastic pollution (including microplastics), overfishing, the destruction of the species that influence the oceanic carbon cycle and the overall increasing frequency of harmful algal blooms...

Not a good forecast for the continued survival of fish.

Re: Atmospheric CO2 levels accelerate upwards

#193

Post by flukus »

jessriedel wrote: post #154
retrac98 wrote: post #137

How does animal agriculture affect this? Are there any authorities on the subject on HN? Everything I've heard suggests the greenhouse gas emissions in support of animal agriculture far outstrip those of pretty much anything else, but nobody seems to really talk about it. Pre-empting a couple of replies here - I already don't eat meat, and yes I've seen "Cowspiracy". :)

This UN site says 5% of actual CO2 and 14% of CO2-equivalent emissions. Cow and pig production emit mostly methane and nitrogen oxide. http://www.fao.org/news/story/en/item/197623/icode/

Pigs are actually a lot better than cows because they are monogastric. So we can cut CO2 emissions by eating more pork and less beef.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruminant#Ruminants_and_climate...

Re: Atmospheric CO2 levels accelerate upwards

#194

Post by ctolsen »

morganwilde wrote: post #143
retrac98 wrote: post #137

How does animal agriculture affect this? Are there any authorities on the subject on HN? Everything I've heard suggests the greenhouse gas emissions in support of animal agriculture far outstrip those of pretty much anything else, but nobody seems to really talk about it. Pre-empting a couple of replies here - I already don't eat meat, and yes I've seen "Cowspiracy". :)

As far as I know, this issue is not comparable to our carbon economy, I.e. Natural gas extraction, coal mining, oil, etc. Key difference is that agriculture is a closed cycle, animals produce a lot of green house gas, but it's gas that's already a part of our ecosystem. When we did stuff from the ground we add new carbon to the ecosystem, and this feat is what's destabilizing the environment. I heard this argument fr…

It is comparable, and thinking about agriculture as a closed system is not even close to correct. We're mowing down natural carbon sinks to an insane degree to grow crops to feed animals, one of the major reasons of deforestation and land use change in South America, for instance.

And not only that, we grow slow-acting carbon and turn it into fast-acting methane.

I strongly doubt Musk would have such a simplistic view of agricultural emissions, they're a big concern for a reason.

Re: Atmospheric CO2 levels accelerate upwards

#195

Post by taylodl »

UweSchmidt wrote: post #190
demonshalo wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> By lifestyle I mean supermarkets and restaurants and iPhones and planes ... all the stuff that we're so proud of as a society. Winning, getting ahead, being number one, outcompeting, etc. All those ego-centric values that are the basis of our socio-economic systems - focused on disconnecting the `self` from `other` - are wrong on a fundamental level. By 'spirituality' I mean the deep realisation of the larger conte…

The assertion is that, as cool as iPhones and flying are, this lifestyle may or may not be sustainable, e.g. regarding the CO2 levels. Leaving aside your silly anger about "hippie bullshit" (really?) and regardless of our history of "competing, losing, getting ahead", what would you propose? Are we just going to brace for pain, and then compete over diminishing ressources? Consider: all of environment protection legi…

It goes beyond bracing for pain. We'd better be bracing for extinction. And our iPhones and supermarkets won't save us, only our ingenuity will and we now have an administration not much interested in that. This does not bode well for us.

Re: Atmospheric CO2 levels accelerate upwards

#196

Post by test001only »

demonshalo wrote: post #182
delegate wrote: post #145

The message I"m getting is not that I have to prepare for something or change energy sources , it's that "our lifestyle is killing the planet much faster than we thought". CO2 levels is just one of a myriad of indicators that are off the scale now. By lifestyle I mean supermarkets and restaurants and iPhones and planes ... all the stuff that we're so proud of as a society. Winning, getting ahead, being number one, ou…

> By lifestyle I mean supermarkets and restaurants and iPhones and planes ... all the stuff that we're so proud of as a society. Winning, getting ahead, being number one, outcompeting, etc. All those ego-centric values that are the basis of our socio-economic systems - focused on disconnecting the `self` from `other` - are wrong on a fundamental level. By 'spirituality' I mean the deep realisation of the larger conte…

Not to take anything away from the impressive technological advancement we have made, but that is certainly not the reason that we can now talk about spirituality. Spirituality and related philosophy has been existing long before any of this existed. Ironically, lot of people once they have spiritual realization, move to lifestyle which you would consider "poor living standards".

Re: Atmospheric CO2 levels accelerate upwards

#197

Post by taejo »

pveierland wrote: post #101
DanWaterworth wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAIK, planting more trees by itself doesn't really help in the long term, because trees eventually decompose releasing the carbon they captured.

My understanding is that if you create a new forest, the amount of carbon needed to create it is taken from the atmosphere. Even if trees in the forest die and decompose, the forest will on average consist of carbon which previously was part of the atmosphere, in effect removing carbon from the atmosphere.

Yes. Planting a forest is a one-off, though. The only way to capture more carbon with the same land is to cut down all the trees, bury them deep enough so that they don't decompose, and start again.

Re: Atmospheric CO2 levels accelerate upwards

#198

Post by qplex »

demonshalo wrote: post #182
delegate wrote: post #145

The message I"m getting is not that I have to prepare for something or change energy sources , it's that "our lifestyle is killing the planet much faster than we thought". CO2 levels is just one of a myriad of indicators that are off the scale now. By lifestyle I mean supermarkets and restaurants and iPhones and planes ... all the stuff that we're so proud of as a society. Winning, getting ahead, being number one, ou…

> By lifestyle I mean supermarkets and restaurants and iPhones and planes ... all the stuff that we're so proud of as a society. Winning, getting ahead, being number one, outcompeting, etc. All those ego-centric values that are the basis of our socio-economic systems - focused on disconnecting the `self` from `other` - are wrong on a fundamental level. By 'spirituality' I mean the deep realisation of the larger conte…

Except here what you label as "pseudo spiritual" is actually the more realistic, scientific and moral way of seeing things.

The iPhones and Supermarkets are of the dream reality.

A world without consequences, where the Foxconn Factory Workers (or the mines of Congo) do not exist.

Re: Atmospheric CO2 levels accelerate upwards

#199

Post by TeMPOraL »

kilotaras wrote: post #191
TeMPOraL wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So does, unfortunately, the rest of the world. With the recent anti-nuclear craze, the EU is sadly not stellar in this regard either. And all of this forgets about Africa, which continues to improve the living condition of its people and thus grow in energy demand. If there isn't green infrastructure ready to be used there, they'll go for the easiest thing, which means fossil fuels. And so do many individuals. I mean…

I have some hope that Africa can do what they did with telecommunications. Skip fossils to renewables.

I hope that too.

Re: Atmospheric CO2 levels accelerate upwards

#200

Post by marchenko »

morganwilde wrote: post #143
retrac98 wrote: post #137

How does animal agriculture affect this? Are there any authorities on the subject on HN? Everything I've heard suggests the greenhouse gas emissions in support of animal agriculture far outstrip those of pretty much anything else, but nobody seems to really talk about it. Pre-empting a couple of replies here - I already don't eat meat, and yes I've seen "Cowspiracy". :)

As far as I know, this issue is not comparable to our carbon economy, I.e. Natural gas extraction, coal mining, oil, etc. Key difference is that agriculture is a closed cycle, animals produce a lot of green house gas, but it's gas that's already a part of our ecosystem. When we did stuff from the ground we add new carbon to the ecosystem, and this feat is what's destabilizing the environment. I heard this argument fr…

Modern agriculture is part of the carbon economy, especially since the Green Revolution. Inorganic fertilizers are produced using coal and natural gas, and nitrogen-enriched fertilizers emit nitrous oxide, a greenhouse gas. These inputs were previously mostly sequestered.
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