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Cargo Cult Agile (2008)

jamesshore.com

11–20 of 112 posts

Re: Cargo Cult Agile (2008)

#11
post #4

I have been thinking about this a lot, ever since I first read this article, some years ago. Most of my freelance projects and technical coaching gigs in the last few years where at companies that were in or after their "Agile transition". And most got "Agile" horribly wrong. I think cargo cult is an issue, but the problem goes deeper. I wrote a conference talk titled "Your Company Will Never Be Agile" around that to…

This matches my experience, although I was lucky that I stopped doing "Agile transitions" gigs early enough. My question is: how do you discuss this with a customer?

At one point I had a talk with a director of a smaller bank, and he was enthusiastic to bring me on board, even wanted to pay me just to spend my workday in the office doing nothing specifically. I declined, because it was a lost cause: their team was too fragmented, their processes were too convoluted, their estimate for a very minor change added up to several months...

Yet, I felt bad about it, because I wanted to help them, but in that environment, I was not able to do anything. How do you approach such situations?

Re: Cargo Cult Agile (2008)

#12
Agile is the only word I know that inverts its meaning when you capitalise it.

The team I work in is fairly agile, in that we communicate well, react to changing priorities very quickly, and ship things regularly. We're not perfect by any means, but whenever we consider adding more of the typical "Agile" process we always realise it would slow us down, and we see other companies with more set "Agile" processes being much slower.

Re: Cargo Cult Agile (2008)

#13
Another kind of cult is religious adherence to methodology while ruining the very value the methodology is supposed to enhance.

When you think something is stupid (like adopting only standups), frequently it's because you don't understand the motivation behind it. Standups are one of the first obvious changes any team, no matter how oldschool and rigid, can adopt and see the results behind it quickly, to encourage further transformation.

When you're changing something big (like a development process that is stable, consistent and filled with people, resources, operational and deployment plans, etc.), you want to change it either radically, or chunk by chunk. Radical changes are easy to decide yet hard to pull off while preserving business continuity, it's a bit of a gamble not everybody is willing to take. So, many executives want the "transformation" to actually be "step by step evolution". And one of the first steps are standups and enhancing the planning.

All of the above doesn't debate the fact that there are companies which get Agile terribly wrong, and companies which can't get Agile right due to extremely rigid structure. However, not all companies who fail to visibly transform into Agile in a few easy steps are like that: sometimes they're stuck on early iterations, slowly working their ways further while preserving continuity and market momentum, and there's nothing wrong with it.

Re: Cargo Cult Agile (2008)

#14

All managers not only engage in waterfall, but covet all of the privileges of waterfall. The ability to tell lessers what to program down to the line of code is the ultimate expression of power for people who will never, ever be C-level. And to top it off, they use their powers to force you to compel you to agree that their practices are agile. Agile has never, and will never exist when micromanagement is a good enou…

This is very true, but Agile isn't the only un-achievable property in this case. Even basic healthy atmosphere and efficiency barely have a chance in these situations, so expecting someone in a wheelchair to run feels a bit naive.

Re: Cargo Cult Agile (2008)

#15
post #11
post #4

I have been thinking about this a lot, ever since I first read this article, some years ago. Most of my freelance projects and technical coaching gigs in the last few years where at companies that were in or after their "Agile transition". And most got "Agile" horribly wrong. I think cargo cult is an issue, but the problem goes deeper. I wrote a conference talk titled "Your Company Will Never Be Agile" around that to…

This matches my experience, although I was lucky that I stopped doing "Agile transitions" gigs early enough. My question is: how do you discuss this with a customer? At one point I had a talk with a director of a smaller bank, and he was enthusiastic to bring me on board, even wanted to pay me just to spend my workday in the office doing nothing specifically. I declined, because it was a lost cause: their team was to…

Well, this is very hard. It is more frustrating with bigger companies.

In one occasion, where they officially brought me in as an agile coach, I tried to at least achieve some local optimum with the team, because some big improvements were plain impossible. I occasionally talked to managers about all the walls we were constantly hitting, but the answer was always "we can never change that in this company". This did not stop me from mentioning the problems, though.

Most company actually hire me as a technical coach or as a developer. There it is easier: When changing the way the team works is not officially my responsibility, I will still mention things that could be done better. But when the company does not listen to me, it is easier to let go: Then I'll just focus again on helping the team dealing with their legacy code monster (or whatever else I was hired to do).

So, in short, my strategy of dealing with it: Never give up mentioning problems and trying to establish a culture of continuous improvement with small experiments. But don't get too frustrated when they don't listen.

Also, often they do listen, and things get a little bit better ;)

How do you deal with those situations? Do you have a different strategy? What could I try to do differently?

Re: Cargo Cult Agile (2008)

#16
I could wax lyrical about Agile all day long. If you google 'Agile Bullshit', a comment I wrote on HN a few years ago is usually in the top three results, and because of that I get an email once a month from someone driven to despair by said 'Agile Bullshit' who feels compelled to get in touch with me and vent a little. I enjoy the emails, and I think they've given me a much broader perspective on agile than my own experience alone could offer.

I've been writing an article about Agile for years now, that I can never finish. But here's what I consider to the be the two biggest problems with Agile.

1. Agile can never work in an agency, where the client has control over budgets, deadlines, and features. There is simply no incentive for the client to compromise when your agency has made some pretty ridiculous promises and put themselves on the hook to deliver.

2. There are some teams that deliver well under agile (as per the metrics that the business has defined), and some that don't. In my experience, the ones that deliver well produce the worst work because they won't push back on a design or a feature that's incomplete, nonsensical, or plain impossible. They do what they're told and add no value to the overall output. This is especially true of offshore development teams.

The teams that produce the better software do push back, but the Agile process as implemented everywhere on earth does not support them. Instead, animosity grows between the developers who push back, and the product-owners|BA's|designers who can't or wont understand the problems with their own work.

But! Some process is better than no process. And I've worked in some companies that take Agile very seriously and are willing to put in the hard work to make it work. And I suppose that' the secret sauce that's missing from most organisations that are "Agile", they think it's a trick, a hack, a cheat, a short cut.

It's not. Like everything else worth doing, it's hard work.

Re: Cargo Cult Agile (2008)

#17
post #8
post #3

I'd argue stand up meetings are the opposite of agile, the insistence on them is literally breaking the first rule of the agile manifesto: > Individuals and interactions over processes and tools Probably breaking the fourth too: > Responding to change over following a plan How many companies have done a retrospective on whether the daily recitation of Kanban board movements​ is providing any value?

To me, a lot of Agile breaks the first rule. A Certified SCRUM Master comes in and overhauls your processes. That is, in effect, processes and tools straight up, from the minute that scrum master goes on a course. It wouldn't be much of a course if it didn't teach some process for implementing SCRUM. It wouldn't be much of a consultation if the consultant tells you to go speak to your customers and find out what is r…

One of the reasons SCRUM wasn't very popular in our team was that we realized it meant having a lot more meetings than we were having before. I think if you go by the numbers, standard scrum has you spending nearly 20% in your time in developer meetings.

Stand ups didn't really work for us either as we are doing our own thing most of the time, so there is little to coordinate, and when there is a need, we usually just work closely together.

Re: Cargo Cult Agile (2008)

#18

Agile is the only word I know that inverts its meaning when you capitalise it. The team I work in is fairly agile, in that we communicate well, react to changing priorities very quickly, and ship things regularly. We're not perfect by any means, but whenever we consider adding more of the typical "Agile" process we always realise it would slow us down, and we see other companies with more set "Agile" processes being…

I enjoyed your comment. The rush to formally define and implement "agile" is pretty hysterical on a fundamental level.

Re: Cargo Cult Agile (2008)

#19
post #8
post #3

I'd argue stand up meetings are the opposite of agile, the insistence on them is literally breaking the first rule of the agile manifesto: > Individuals and interactions over processes and tools Probably breaking the fourth too: > Responding to change over following a plan How many companies have done a retrospective on whether the daily recitation of Kanban board movements​ is providing any value?

To me, a lot of Agile breaks the first rule. A Certified SCRUM Master comes in and overhauls your processes. That is, in effect, processes and tools straight up, from the minute that scrum master goes on a course. It wouldn't be much of a course if it didn't teach some process for implementing SCRUM. It wouldn't be much of a consultation if the consultant tells you to go speak to your customers and find out what is r…

I think you have the same misconception about the first rule that many people do (forgive me if I'm wrong).

> Individuals and interactions over processes and tools

This does not mean that you minimise process and tools. This means that individuals and interactions trump processes and tools. So if you have a process that doesn't fit the people on your team, then you change the process, not the team. Similarly, you try to encourage interactions through as many avenues as you can. You don't say, "You must use this tool and only this tool to communicate".

But it's a mistake to think that you want to remove process. That's not "agile". That's "ad hoc". There is nothing particularly wrong with ad hoc processes if you are successful, but the "we'll just use common sense" approach that many teams attempt is usually anything but successful.

Process is there to support individuals. When I am coaching a team, I never go in with the idea of introducing any particular process. Of course, I am more skilled with some processes than others, but imposing my skill on a team I am coaching is not going to be successful. Instead, I watch what people are doing and write it down. That is the process. At that point I start looking at problems that we can solve. I look for places where the process is not consistent, or where people are struggling because they don't know what to do. Then I try to extend the existing processes so that it is consistent across the team. Finally, I start introducing things that I'm skillful in where I am sure it will make a difference. At this point the team is already delivering with their process and we are just looking at ways to optimise.

There is a lot more to it that this, of course. However, for me this is the minimum thing that you need to do to coach a team. I've tried other approaches (when forced to by upper management), but I've never been successful.

Re: Cargo Cult Agile (2008)

#20

I could wax lyrical about Agile all day long. If you google 'Agile Bullshit', a comment I wrote on HN a few years ago is usually in the top three results, and because of that I get an email once a month from someone driven to despair by said 'Agile Bullshit' who feels compelled to get in touch with me and vent a little. I enjoy the emails, and I think they've given me a much broader perspective on agile than my own e…

Well said. The funny thing about point 1. is that the Agile Manifesto implies already that it could never work: "Customer collaboration over contract negotiation"

Nevertheless it doesn't stop many agencies from claiming that their fixed price projects are agile.

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