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Banks scramble to fix old systems as IT 'cowboys' ride into sunset

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Re: Banks scramble to fix old systems as IT 'cowboys' ride into sunset

#71
Boy this sounds familiar.

It's not just banks; many state (and presumably federal) angencies have this exact problem.

The agency I work for now has a large COBOL code base that's been in the process of being converted to Java for a very long time now with varying degrees of success. I frequently have to read through COBOL to figure out what a particular project was supposed to do in the first place. It's not hard to understand, but it's certainly not immediately intuitive for someone who came up on Java.

We have the privilege of still having a few of the authors of the original systems hanging around, but we won't for much longer.

Re: Banks scramble to fix old systems as IT 'cowboys' ride into sunset

#72

$100 an hour, so $208k a year (assuming no time off), for a guy with 30+ years working on a critical system in an industry where floor traders can make 7-8 figures, and huge bonuses are paid to "analysts". I have plumber buddies that make more than that per hour (and with a crew can make more a year). That's why a couple years ago when I had access to a zseries, and was hearing about how "desperate" the banks were I…

Yeah that was odd, already back in 2009 I was making 135K as a PHP sr developer/architect so I am not sure why six figures is such a big deal. This sort of stuff needs to be six figures where the first is at least 2 if not 3. If we are talking of an agency, it needs to bill 500 an hour and hand over half of that.

Re: Banks scramble to fix old systems as IT 'cowboys' ride into sunset

#73
post #59
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure if the $100/hour figure quoted is a hard and fast cash amount banks strictly adhere to, but ultimately this is business, so: set your price and walk away if it's not met. I set my price: AUD$850/day, with a TINY bit of wriggle room, and that's final. I know my worth (from a skills perspective and market/economical one.)

Inc. Super/GST?

No. I don't receive that, the government does. That goes on top.

Edit: misread. GST is NOT included in the price; Super is my problem and comes out of the agreed daily rate.

Re: Banks scramble to fix old systems as IT 'cowboys' ride into sunset

#74
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious what your experience in Australia has been for you to think that. In my experience that's not what I'd call a lot in Australia, most commonly your average basic IT contactor will charge $80-120/hr, let alone any sort of speciality.

What's a basic IT contractor? $100 seems to start getting to the upper end of what I'd call a basic IT contractor. > $100 seems to be for more management/architect type roles according to http://au.hudson.com/portals/au/documents/salary%20guides/20... and http://www.greythorn.com.au/media/greythorn/greythorn%20mark... .

Don't most contractors use recruiting companies when they start out, then rely on word of mouth/networks? Might be why the hudson/greythorn rates seem low.

Re: Banks scramble to fix old systems as IT 'cowboys' ride into sunset

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be perfectly fair, turning on a mainframe or minicomputer is a nontrivial operation.

Any particular reason why?

It's a multi-step process, and every system is different. It's not just a matter of flip the switch and wait for it to come up. If you're looking at something really primitive, you might even literally have to toggle in a boot loader program.

These 2 Youtube videos show how to initialize an S/390. The top comment on the second video is really good, too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytMgyrZm87A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrKbh5HwF3Q

Re: Banks scramble to fix old systems as IT 'cowboys' ride into sunset

#77
post #56

$100 an hour, so $208k a year (assuming no time off), for a guy with 30+ years working on a critical system in an industry where floor traders can make 7-8 figures, and huge bonuses are paid to "analysts". I have plumber buddies that make more than that per hour (and with a crew can make more a year). That's why a couple years ago when I had access to a zseries, and was hearing about how "desperate" the banks were I…

Not sure if the $100/hour figure quoted is a hard and fast cash amount banks strictly adhere to, but ultimately this is business, so: set your price and walk away if it's not met. I set my price: AUD$850/day, with a TINY bit of wriggle room, and that's final. I know my worth (from a skills perspective and market/economical one.)

You could probably charge higher - this is at the mid range of many client side programmer daily rates in AU and systems skills like this are so much more critical.

Re: Banks scramble to fix old systems as IT 'cowboys' ride into sunset

#78
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At my last employer, there were a few "mainframers" (we called them). I was curious so I would ask my mainframer coworker how things worked on his end. I always struggled to understand, because it seemed everything was different ... the terminology, the culture, the ideas. I couldn't use analogy to tie what he was describing back to what I knew.

You got that right. I had to deal with an interesting banking file format and I asked a question on Stack Overflow and got this gem of an answer. I politely accepted it as the right answer but boy oh boy does it feel like it's from an alien civilization. http://stackoverflow.com/questions/28640159/what-is-the-diff...

Although I was never a mainframe programmer per se, I did quite a bit of interfacing between mini/microcomputers and IBM mainframes, so I got to see under the hood a little. (If I write something stupid, it's either memory issues or ignorance).

I recall seeing how files were allocated on disk (remember that mainframes have many different OSes, like OS\390, and even OSes on top of OSes like VM/CMS, and I don't remember what this was running on).

In this particular case, a file was preallocated in JCL to use N extents starting on a specific cylinder. Fixed size. None of this fancy ext3 or NTFS ;)

JCL (Job Control Language) was a language to control batch jobs, and many have called it the worst language ever designed, although not as bad as brainfk.

On the other hand, I had a chance to interface C++ with CICS (a transaction processing subsystem) using WebSphere MQ, and I must say, I was really impressed with its sophistication. It was a kind of SOA long before the term was invented.

A lot of what I saw in the mainframe world predated things - by decades - that some may think are new(er) concepts, such as clusters (sysplex), front-end processors, hypervisors, HA, and so on.

Those of us who had to fiddle with implied file formats with fixed-length fields and records won't find this stuff quite as alien, but equally as painful to deal with. I recall using some sort of ETL program to get around this. On the plus side, these primitive formats certainly were efficient in terms of processing speed, and a great match for COBOL.

Speaking of COBOL, as part of this project, I had to write a parser in C++ to parse COBOL copybooks (kind of a COBOL data structure definition) and generate C code to read the data.

It is a very different world, but I don't think it's all bad. After all, the technology has been working very well for a long time. Kudos to the COBOL Cowboys. I hope they charge a lot more than $100/hr!

Re: Banks scramble to fix old systems as IT 'cowboys' ride into sunset

#79

First employee/architect of Kraken here. (Now does >USD$10M+/day of volume by my estimate) Accounting systems of all kinds should be generic and open source. Why do we need banks at all? It's not like this infrastructure really has any special characteristics. Most of it even has downtime and batch jobs. Fact: The bulk of banking is just recording some numbers at a stupendously simplistic resolution, with maybe 64 ch…

A few weeks ago I spent a day interviewing 20 different Hong Kong banks about API availability for cross-border RMB transactions. None at all offered it.

They don't do it because doing it while complying with all relevant regulations is more complicated than you realise. That's what banks are ultimately in the business of, finding ways to do business across jurisdictions. And it's why most fintech companies fail: their beautiful code runs headlong into the messy, illogical, unpredictable real world of regulatory compliance and guess what, the regulator always wins.

Re: Banks scramble to fix old systems as IT 'cowboys' ride into sunset

#80
post #79

First employee/architect of Kraken here. (Now does >USD$10M+/day of volume by my estimate) Accounting systems of all kinds should be generic and open source. Why do we need banks at all? It's not like this infrastructure really has any special characteristics. Most of it even has downtime and batch jobs. Fact: The bulk of banking is just recording some numbers at a stupendously simplistic resolution, with maybe 64 ch…

A few weeks ago I spent a day interviewing 20 different Hong Kong banks about API availability for cross-border RMB transactions. None at all offered it. They don't do it because doing it while complying with all relevant regulations is more complicated than you realise. That's what banks are ultimately in the business of, finding ways to do business across jurisdictions. And it's why most fintech companies fail: the…

I seriously doubt that, given a signup sheet of legalese, in most jurisdictions any service provided through an appropriately authenticated API is different in legal standing from the same service provided online through internet banking and slow, manual, error-prone process.
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